Jump to content
The Official Site of the Edmonton Oilers

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Zuko

Ales Hemsky

Recommended Posts

ok conner, i'm going to answer your questions point by point. but first i want to point out, that i said i would trade him for the right package. you chose to ignore this.

i said i was listening to what kind of trade proposal for picks you had in mind. you chose to ignore this also.

i asked you what kind of injury, the length & the severity. you chose to ignore this also.

then you try & switch it around to ask a bunch of what if's on top of what if's. i've said it before i'll say it again, you try & manipulate the facts to support your argument. i don't really care for people who are scared to answer a question so they ask their own to throw you off. you can't dazzle me with brilliance, & you sure can't baffle me with B.S.

now i will answer your questions even though you chose not to answer mine.

1.i believe hemsky when he says he will be healthy for the season, but anyone can be injured conner surely you know that. oh by the way, i already stated that, so there was no reason for that question.

2. it does increase the possibility of a re-injury. but by how much no one knows? are you a doctor that has examined him? do you know better than everyone else?

3.no conner it would not give you more value, because that is what the other GM will say to get him cheap. if you want to get more value, play him & prove he's healthy, then increase his value. wait till xmas like i said earlier.

4.if hemsky wants a no trade, i would never give it to him. i also would not sign him longer than 3 years, preferably 2 years.( i think it is foolish you would even ask that,)

5.they are deepest on wing, yes. in the league no. but you fail to see that we are short on veterans. funny how you ask manipulative questions. funny how you don't answer straight forward ones.

6. who cares, who knows ? just trying to muddy the waters again, pathetic.

7. of course or would you rather they walk away? don't try & say hemsky's contract hurts them because i would sign him for 2 years & end when they are due. by that time if we want to keep him, if he's still here we can get him cheaper or trade him then.

8. the oilers are shooting to make the play offs & it will be very difficult if they make it at all. i think they will be close, but i've said it before & you know this. there is no reason to ask this question other than just trying manipulate again. would a non oiler fan think the oilers are going to make the play offs? well you are better suited to answer that question.

9. hypothetically i don't think you can answer that ridicules question. first off i don't give them the time of day. but then you load it with if this, if that on top of if this. i've got one for you, F you, woops forgot the I.

i know you would like to think you are patient & calculating, but guess what, your pathetic & manipulating.

+1000000000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First off...why would the CBA even be brought up? If the cap does go down as a result, then it would likely include a clause that would include salary drop for all signed players. That's what happened when the cap originally came into effect. But this doesn't even belong in this thread....

As for Hemsky, while it's pretty obvious he's being shopped, you can bet the asking price is going to be a top 4 D-man. We're talking Dubinsky or Bogosian. The Jets have stated that they're looking at re-signing Bogo so I doubt that's the team we dance with (though it could happen).

But beyond that, I doubt he gets traded. My guess is that the Oilers keep his status as is until Christmas. Then provided he stays healthy, we give him an extension early in the new year. He'll ask for the NTC but I doubt it'll happen. Maybe a limited one similar to what Heatley currently has (can only say no to 10 teams).

As for years...that's a tough one. I mean we're talking about millions of $$$ here. If he stays healthy, then he's worth every penny. But if keeps loosing large chunks of a season due to injury, then it becomes a major issue. That said, I'd give him a 4 year contract, limited NTC...money...

A quick question, does the current CBA allow for bonuses based on number of games played?? Maybe that could be worked in to up the dollars to the proper amounts but protect the Oilers just in case he keeps getting hurt....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With the uncertainty of next year's CBA and the hypothetical situation where Hemsky gets injured again this coming season, wouldn't you say that his value would probably higher now than it would be if he got hurt and we signed him again? What if Hemsky gets hurt again and doesn't want to sign a 1 year contract?

Yes his value would go down and we would've lost an opportunity to get something good out of him, but let me ask you this question then.

If Hemsky ends up being able to play a full season and he gets above 80 points which we all know he's capable of regardless of what NameBrandOil thinks (saying that Hemsky is not an 80 point player because of 3 measly points that he could've gotten with that last game he didn't play is childish at best) and we traded him away to someone else, so he got those points with another team. Would you still feel like it was a good idea to trade him?

Because of what I just mentioned before don't you think that that possibility is feasible and because of it is worth the risk?

Again many players have not peaked till 27 years old, if people would bother to check the NHL stats and go look at all the top current players and even those in the past. You will notice that most of the time players don't reach their prime till 27 or 28 years old and keep going till around 32 or so years old. Hemsky is just getting into his, trading someone at their peak just because he would've given us the most value in return is not a good reason to trade someone. There has to be many other reasons involved then just being at his highest value.

If the NHL worked like that, there would be tons of crazy trades going on (even crazier then what we see at trade deadline day). I mean you would see Ovechkin and Crosby and Datsyuk be traded already. The Sedin twins after last year stanley cup playoffs would be traded since they are at their highest in value.

You have to understand that it comes to more then just value, it depends also if the player wants to play here and for how much and if he fills a need on the roster.

Hemsky wants to play here, I don't believe he will ask for much and he fills a big need on the roster. That need is the ability to be PPG player or close to it on a team that has none currently. On top of that he improved on other areas as well, he was one of our better players defensively last year. Better then Horcoff which is saying alot. When he was on the PK he was one of our better PK players.

Then add to the fact that this year might finally be his first year in a long time where he's healthy and with the team we have, I would bet on him getting a career year this year. That doesn't mean I'm 100% right. It's very possible that he might end up getting injured and we would have given up a chance to trade him before he got injured where his value was better. But after what I mentioned above, he is worth the risk.

Would you not agree that Datsyuk and Zetterberg are worth the risk? If you do then why wouldn't you agree on Hemsky then. You might talk about how Datsyuk and Zetterberg had more points, but they didn't reach that level till they were 27-28 years old. And have had just as much injuries as Hemsky. Yet Detroit kept them, and look at what they've become, if they would've done what you are trying to do now with Hemsky, they would've ended up regretting it.

Alot of people don't realize that most of the superstars we see now didn't start off as one. They had potential but it took alot of time. People see Hemsky's career and try to compare it to players who are currently on their prime or have been. And that is not a fair assessment. Why not compare him to those same players but before they got their career year, and you will notice that they all have had almost similar careers (point wise I mean).

As for NameBrandOil, you can talk about how Hemsky didn't get 80 points and so it doesn't count but remember that he did it with players that weren't that great offensively except for Smyth. Remember that he did it as a 22 year old. Remember that thanks to Hemsky, Horcoff had a career year that year as well, which shows that Hemsky can make players around him better. Imagine him playing with Hall and RNH. Even reunited on the Smyth Horcoff line he will still be able to produce alot. Cause Smyth is the perfect player for someone like Hemsky. Hemsky makes unbelievable passes, having someone staying in front of the net recieving those passes will result in alot of goals. Heck look at Horcoff last year, how many goals bounced off him playing with Hall and Eberle, and Smyth is a much better player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ conner. i have no problem staying upbeat. as long as i don't feel that someone is trying to pull a fast one by trying to be cute & laying traps instead of just having an honest debate. to be honest i was getting to the end of my patience, but that's because i recognized the tactics from many other debates in the past. you play straight with me & i'll do the same with you. just remember i've seen parlor tricks before. if i think your punching below the belt, expect one back.

if you want an intellectual conversation, i'm willing. next time keep the gloves up & so will i.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First off...why would the CBA even be brought up? If the cap does go down as a result, then it would likely include a clause that would include salary drop for all signed players. That's what happened when the cap originally came into effect. But this doesn't even belong in this thread....

As for Hemsky, while it's pretty obvious he's being shopped, you can bet the asking price is going to be a top 4 D-man. We're talking Dubinsky or Bogosian. The Jets have stated that they're looking at re-signing Bogo so I doubt that's the team we dance with (though it could happen).

But beyond that, I doubt he gets traded. My guess is that the Oilers keep his status as is until Christmas. Then provided he stays healthy, we give him an extension early in the new year. He'll ask for the NTC but I doubt it'll happen. Maybe a limited one similar to what Heatley currently has (can only say no to 10 teams).

As for years...that's a tough one. I mean we're talking about millions of $$$ here. If he stays healthy, then he's worth every penny. But if keeps loosing large chunks of a season due to injury, then it becomes a major issue. That said, I'd give him a 4 year contract, limited NTC...money...

A quick question, does the current CBA allow for bonuses based on number of games played?? Maybe that could be worked in to up the dollars to the proper amounts but protect the Oilers just in case he keeps getting hurt....

The last time there was a new CBA the Oilers positioned themselves very nicely to acquire big assets for relatively cheap. Signing players before the new CBA might prove to be a bad move.

I hope we get a centre but a defenceman would be good too.

Hemsky at 4 years is a long time, especially for a guy who sounds like he could take him or leave him.

Not sure about games played bonuses.

Yes his value would go down and we would've lost an opportunity to get something good out of him, but let me ask you this question then.

If Hemsky ends up being able to play a full season and he gets above 80 points which we all know he's capable of regardless of what NameBrandOil thinks (saying that Hemsky is not an 80 point player because of 3 measly points that he could've gotten with that last game he didn't play is childish at best) and we traded him away to someone else, so he got those points with another team. Would you still feel like it was a good idea to trade him?

Because of what I just mentioned before don't you think that that possibility is feasible and because of it is worth the risk?

Again many players have not peaked till 27 years old, if people would bother to check the NHL stats and go look at all the top current players and even those in the past. You will notice that most of the time players don't reach their prime till 27 or 28 years old and keep going till around 32 or so years old. Hemsky is just getting into his, trading someone at their peak just because he would've given us the most value in return is not a good reason to trade someone. There has to be many other reasons involved then just being at his highest value.

If the NHL worked like that, there would be tons of crazy trades going on (even crazier then what we see at trade deadline day). I mean you would see Ovechkin and Crosby and Datsyuk be traded already. The Sedin twins after last year stanley cup playoffs would be traded since they are at their highest in value.

You have to understand that it comes to more then just value, it depends also if the player wants to play here and for how much and if he fills a need on the roster.

Hemsky wants to play here, I don't believe he will ask for much and he fills a big need on the roster. That need is the ability to be PPG player or close to it on a team that has none currently. On top of that he improved on other areas as well, he was one of our better players defensively last year. Better then Horcoff which is saying alot. When he was on the PK he was one of our better PK players.

Then add to the fact that this year might finally be his first year in a long time where he's healthy and with the team we have, I would bet on him getting a career year this year. That doesn't mean I'm 100% right. It's very possible that he might end up getting injured and we would have given up a chance to trade him before he got injured where his value was better. But after what I mentioned above, he is worth the risk.

Would you not agree that Datsyuk and Zetterberg are worth the risk? If you do then why wouldn't you agree on Hemsky then. You might talk about how Datsyuk and Zetterberg had more points, but they didn't reach that level till they were 27-28 years old. And have had just as much injuries as Hemsky. Yet Detroit kept them, and look at what they've become, if they would've done what you are trying to do now with Hemsky, they would've ended up regretting it.

Alot of people don't realize that most of the superstars we see now didn't start off as one. They had potential but it took alot of time. People see Hemsky's career and try to compare it to players who are currently on their prime or have been. And that is not a fair assessment. Why not compare him to those same players but before they got their career year, and you will notice that they all have had almost similar careers (point wise I mean).

As for NameBrandOil, you can talk about how Hemsky didn't get 80 points and so it doesn't count but remember that he did it with players that weren't that great offensively except for Smyth. Remember that he did it as a 22 year old. Remember that thanks to Hemsky, Horcoff had a career year that year as well, which shows that Hemsky can make players around him better. Imagine him playing with Hall and RNH. Even reunited on the Smyth Horcoff line he will still be able to produce alot. Cause Smyth is the perfect player for someone like Hemsky. Hemsky makes unbelievable passes, having someone staying in front of the net recieving those passes will result in alot of goals. Heck look at Horcoff last year, how many goals bounced off him playing with Hall and Eberle, and Smyth is a much better player.

I honestly hope if we trade Hemsky he has an outstanding career. I hope he wins the Hart and the Conn Smythe in the same year. I like the guy, don't get me wrong and I do think he's a good hockey player but I personally am getting tired of "Next year Hemsky's going to have a break out season" and "Hemsky's on the ice and he's not getting up." Hemsky used to be easily my favorite player. I knew he was going to be good when I saw him in his rookie season. IMO this is a new Oilers team with new stars. They're the players we should build around.

The thing is the Hemsky has relatively bin the same player for years now. Every year fans are waiting/hoping for Hemsky to take another step in his progression. Datsyuk progressively got better every season and Zetterberg had a blowout season (85 points) at his 3rd season at the age of 25. The Sedin's progressed and surpassed any of Hemsky season point totals at 25 and 26. Hemsky could have another level but he also could not and his best could be an almost ppg player.

I think Hemsky improved defensively to be not a liability. I think his PK time was more due to lack of any other forwards to depend upon.

If any year is going to be Hemsky's year, this would be it.

@ conner. i have no problem staying upbeat. as long as i don't feel that someone is trying to pull a fast one by trying to be cute & laying traps instead of just having an honest debate. to be honest i was getting to the end of my patience, but that's because i recognized the tactics from many other debates in the past. you play straight with me & i'll do the same with you. just remember i've seen parlor tricks before. if i think your punching below the belt, expect one back.

if you want an intellectual conversation, i'm willing. next time keep the gloves up & so will i.

ok

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we are going to see a improved Hemmer this year, he's healthy and excited for what's to come. And doesn't hurt to have Smyth back and Reager gone, lol. Im calling for a incredible season for him.

+1 I believe this is his year

First off...why would the CBA even be brought up? If the cap does go down as a result, then it would likely include a clause that would include salary drop for all signed players. That's what happened when the cap originally came into effect. But this doesn't even belong in this thread....

As for Hemsky, while it's pretty obvious he's being shopped, you can bet the asking price is going to be a top 4 D-man. We're talking Dubinsky or Bogosian. The Jets have stated that they're looking at re-signing Bogo so I doubt that's the team we dance with (though it could happen).

But beyond that, I doubt he gets traded. My guess is that the Oilers keep his status as is until Christmas. Then provided he stays healthy, we give him an extension early in the new year. He'll ask for the NTC but I doubt it'll happen. Maybe a limited one similar to what Heatley currently has (can only say no to 10 teams).

As for years...that's a tough one. I mean we're talking about millions of $$$ here. If he stays healthy, then he's worth every penny. But if keeps loosing large chunks of a season due to injury, then it becomes a major issue. That said, I'd give him a 4 year contract, limited NTC...money...

A quick question, does the current CBA allow for bonuses based on number of games played?? Maybe that could be worked in to up the dollars to the proper amounts but protect the Oilers just in case he keeps getting hurt....

I wouldn't give a NTC in this case. I would like to keep him around but a short term of 2 yrs preferably.

@conner and mrtea You guys need a hug :th_group20hug:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got a proposal

Hemsky, Smid, Pitlick FOR Johansen, Pahlsson, conditional pick

conditions:

If Columbus doesn't make the playoffs then 3rd rounder,

if they make it and lose in first round than 2nd rounder,

if they make it past the first rounder than 1st rounder

Reasons for players

Hemsky - Obviusly the focal point for Columbus. Would look great and a perfect fit playing on a line of Nash-Carter-Hemsky

Smid - They are still short one defenceman and need a guy with size and physicalness. Also trading Smid with Hemsky to Columbus would increase Columbus's chances or re-signing Hemsky since they're good friends and Smid has 2 years left on his contract to Hemsky's 1.

Pitlick - Fills the hole left on the prospect chart. Both are similar players but of course Johansen has more upside. Pitlick is also AHL available so he could be a call up for Columbus while Johansen would still have to spend another year in the WHL.

Johansen - Focal point for the Oilers. I feel this is the exact type of player we need anchoring the 2nd line for years to come.

Pahlsson - Acuiring Pahlsson would either make another centre expendible (Gagner maybe with the arrival of Johansen) or push tem to the wing. Pahlsson could be to Omark and Paajarvi what Horcoff is to Eberle and Hall. Could also cash Pahlsson in at the deadline for assets if we are not close to playeroffs since he's a UFA at then end of the season. Pahlsson also balances the money out a little more and would be expendible to Columbus making 2.65 on the 4th line.

Conditional pick - This pick kinda balances out the trade. A team like Columbus would need their pick if they were going to miss the playoffs but I think Howson would give that pick up if he knew his team would make it to the playoffs and especially the 2nd round.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes his value would go down and we would've lost an opportunity to get something good out of him, but let me ask you this question then.

-Sometimes you have to go with your gut instinct and go with the safe route.

If Hemsky ends up being able to play a full season and he gets above 80 points which we all know he's capable of regardless of what NameBrandOil thinks (saying that Hemsky is not an 80 point player because of 3 measly points that he could've gotten with that last game he didn't play is childish at best) and we traded him away to someone else, so he got those points with another team. Would you still feel like it was a good idea to trade him? Who's to say he would have gotten 3 points his last game? Fact is, he is not an 80 point player as of today. As long as the kids are able to step in and contribute, then yes.

Because of what I just mentioned before don't you think that that possibility is feasible and because of it is worth the risk? Maybe, but maybe not.

Again many players have not peaked till 27 years old, if people would bother to check the NHL stats and go look at all the top current players and even those in the past. You will notice that most of the time players don't reach their prime till 27 or 28 years old and keep going till around 32 or so years old. Hemsky is just getting into his, trading someone at their peak just because he would've given us the most value in return is not a good reason to trade someone. There has to be many other reasons involved then just being at his highest value. Who's to say he hasn't already peaked? Will he ever reach his full potential? There are also many players who do not reach their full potential or peak early and fizzle out early.

If the NHL worked like that, there would be tons of crazy trades going on (even crazier then what we see at trade deadline day). I mean you would see Ovechkin and Crosby and Datsyuk be traded already. The Sedin twins after last year stanley cup playoffs would be traded since they are at their highest in value. I can't believe you are comparing Hemsky to Hart trophy winners.

You have to understand that it comes to more then just value, it depends also if the player wants to play here and for how much and if he fills a need on the roster. If the younger guys are ready to step in then he doesn't fill a need, hence getting a different need filled in a trade.

Would you not agree that Datsyuk and Zetterberg are worth the risk? If you do then why wouldn't you agree on Hemsky then. You might talk about how Datsyuk and Zetterberg had more points, but they didn't reach that level till they were 27-28 years old. And have had just as much injuries as Hemsky. Yet Detroit kept them, and look at what they've become, if they would've done what you are trying to do now with Hemsky, they would've ended up regretting it. Have they had concussions and both shoulders injured?

Alot of people don't realize that most of the superstars we see now didn't start off as one. They had potential but it took alot of time. People see Hemsky's career and try to compare it to players who are currently on their prime or have been. And that is not a fair assessment. Why not compare him to those same players but before they got their career year, and you will notice that they all have had almost similar careers (point wise I mean). Is Hemsky a lock to follow this trend? If so, better sign him longterm then right now!

As for NameBrandOil, you can talk about how Hemsky didn't get 80 points and so it doesn't count but remember that he did it with players that weren't that great offensively except for Smyth. Remember that he did it as a 22 year old. Remember that thanks to Hemsky, Horcoff had a career year that year as well, which shows that Hemsky can make players around him better. Imagine him playing with Hall and RNH. Even reunited on the Smyth Horcoff line he will still be able to produce alot. Cause Smyth is the perfect player for someone like Hemsky. Hemsky makes unbelievable passes, having someone staying in front of the net recieving those passes will result in alot of goals. Heck look at Horcoff last year, how many goals bounced off him playing with Hall and Eberle, and Smyth is a much better player. We'll have to wait and see who he ends up playing with now won't we?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got a proposal

Hemsky, Smid, Pitlick FOR Johansen, Pahlsson, conditional pick

conditions:

If Columbus doesn't make the playoffs then 3rd rounder,

if they make it and lose in first round than 2nd rounder,

if they make it past the first rounder than 1st rounder

Reasons for players

Hemsky - Obviusly the focal point for Columbus. Would look great and a perfect fit playing on a line of Nash-Carter-Hemsky

Smid - They are still short one defenceman and need a guy with size and physicalness. Also trading Smid with Hemsky to Columbus would increase Columbus's chances or re-signing Hemsky since they're good friends and Smid has 2 years left on his contract to Hemsky's 1.

Pitlick - Fills the hole left on the prospect chart. Both are similar players but of course Johansen has more upside. Pitlick is also AHL available so he could be a call up for Columbus while Johansen would still have to spend another year in the WHL.

Johansen - Focal point for the Oilers. I feel this is the exact type of player we need anchoring the 2nd line for years to come.

Pahlsson - Acuiring Pahlsson would either make another centre expendible (Gagner maybe with the arrival of Johansen) or push tem to the wing. Pahlsson could be to Omark and Paajarvi what Horcoff is to Eberle and Hall. Could also cash Pahlsson in at the deadline for assets if we are not close to playeroffs since he's a UFA at then end of the season. Pahlsson also balances the money out a little more and would be expendible to Columbus making 2.65 on the 4th line.

Conditional pick - This pick kinda balances out the trade. A team like Columbus would need their pick if they were going to miss the playoffs but I think Howson would give that pick up if he knew his team would make it to the playoffs and especially the 2nd round.

So... give up our best forward in Hemsky, a top 4 shut down d-man who is in his prime,

and IF that wasn't enough we throw in a solid prospect in Pitlick

Wow, the return better be good. oh wait.... it's not

An unproven prospect in Johansen and a slightly overpaid 3rd line centre in Pahlsson

And Columbus probs won't make it to the second round in the playoffs, so a 2nd pick

We need D, Not a 3rd line centre and an unproven prospect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got a proposal

Hemsky, Smid, Pitlick FOR Johansen, Pahlsson, conditional pick

I have a feeling that Tambi will ask for more. In this scenario I think we'd be overpaying. You have the center piece coming back as a #2 center? I can appreciate your enthusiasm for having a solid 1-2 punch at center. Maybe a 1st rounder coming our way along with the conditional pick and leave Pitlick out of this altogether.

or

Hemsky, Gagner, Smid

for

Johansen, Pahlsson, Tyutin, 1st round pick in 2012 & conditional pick in 2013

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a feeling that Tambi will ask for more. In this scenario I think we'd be overpaying. You have the center piece coming back as a #2 center? I can appreciate your enthusiasm for having a solid 1-2 punch at center. Maybe a 1st rounder coming our way along with the conditional pick and leave Pitlick out of this altogether.

Overpayment? Depends how you look at the trade.

- Hemsky is a proven point getter and nearly a point ppg and should do better with proven linemates and reach potential

- Smid is a younger, experienced physical defenceman who can be relied on defensively

- Pitlick is a big right hander shot centre with offensive upside and who plays physical

FOR

- Johansen is an unproven big centre who is progressing but isn't tearing it up

- Pahlsson is an overpaid checking centre on the last year of his contract

- a probable 2nd rounder

or

- Hemsky is an injury prone player on the final year of his contract who is close to a ppg player but can't expect more

- Smid is an up and down defenceman who's had a concussion and has yet to fully establish himself as a defensive defenceman

- Pitlick had an average season in the CHL and was moved to the wing and may never make the NHL

FOR

- Johansen is a big 6'3 centre drafted 4th overall who has an all-around game offence, defence, physical and has great potential

- Pahlsson is a top checking centre able to shut down other team's best lines and excells in the playoffs

- With our trade and Columbus's other acquisitions this off season a good chacne at a 2nd rounder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hemmer has always been my favorite player in the last 8 years. I have always found the number of fans who want to trade him to be an indication that he is/was not well received here. The fact that many of these are the same fans who think getting a totally washed up 35 year old mullet-head (aka smyth) back at 6.25 million salary/cap hit tells me that Hemmer will probably get traded because 83 was always a fan split so the potential fan backlash would be minimal.

After all, any rational, sane GM would rather keep a 36 year old (think next year) mullet head than a player entering the prime of his career (Hemmer turns 28 for his next contract).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hemsky, Gagner, Smid

for

Johansen, Pahlsson, Tyutin, 1st round pick in 2012 & conditional pick in 2013

Tyutin needs to be in this trade to make the money work but I think Howson wants to keep him since he's one of their best defenders. I've been looking at the Jacket's roster and the only player with significant salary who Howson would want to part with is Pahlsson.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Overpayment? Depends how you look at the trade.

- Hemsky is a proven point getter and nearly a point ppg and should do better with proven linemates and reach potential

- Smid is a younger, experienced physical defenceman who can be relied on defensively

- Pitlick is a big right hander shot centre with offensive upside and who plays physical

FOR

- Johansen is an unproven big centre who is progressing but isn't tearing it up

- Pahlsson is an overpaid checking centre on the last year of his contract

- a probable 2nd rounder

or

- Hemsky is an injury prone player on the final year of his contract who is close to a ppg player but can't expect more

- Smid is an up and down defenceman who's had a concussion and has yet to fully establish himself as a defensive defenceman

- Pitlick had an average season in the CHL and was moved to the wing and may never make the NHL

FOR

- Johansen is a big 6'3 centre drafted 4th overall who has an all-around game offence, defence, physical and has great potential

- Pahlsson is a top checking centre able to shut down other team's best lines and excells in the playoffs

- With our trade and Columbus's other acquisitions this off season a good chacne at a 2nd rounder

Touche. The first is overpayment and the latter is a steal. My guess is you are leaning towards a steal? I still think we should get at least a 1st rounder back any way you look at it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hemmer has always been my favorite player in the last 8 years. I have always found the number of fans who want to trade him to be an indication that he is/was not well received here. The fact that many of these are the same fans who think getting a totally washed up 35 year old mullet-head (aka smyth) back at 6.25 million salary/cap hit tells me that Hemmer will probably get traded because 83 was always a fan split so the potential fan backlash would be minimal.

After all, any rational, sane GM would rather keep a 36 year old (think next year) mullet head than a player entering the prime of his career (Hemmer turns 28 for his next contract).

Do I sense some hostility?

No one can deny that Smyth loved this city and played his heart out every night. Washed up or not that's the type of player you want around the younger players.

Hemsky is talented but people like him more for his skill. Fans like Smyth because of who he is and his relationship with the team and the city hence the lesser backlash if Hemsky gets traded.

Hemsky will be 28 at the end of this contract and 29 at the beginning of the next one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tyutin needs to be in this trade to make the money work but I think Howson wants to keep him since he's one of their best defenders. I've been looking at the Jacket's roster and the only player with significant salary who Howson would want to part with is Pahlsson.

Yeah, they are high on Tyutin, for sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hemmer has always been my favorite player in the last 8 years. I have always found the number of fans who want to trade him to be an indication that he is/was not well received here. The fact that many of these are the same fans who think getting a totally washed up 35 year old mullet-head (aka smyth) back at 6.25 million salary/cap hit tells me that Hemmer will probably get traded because 83 was always a fan split so the potential fan backlash would be minimal.

After all, any rational, sane GM would rather keep a 36 year old (think next year) mullet head than a player entering the prime of his career (Hemmer turns 28 for his next contract).

Just to clarify...Smyth's cash hit is only $4.5 million (heh...only...). His cap hit $6.25 million. We could easily afford the cap hit which is why we made the deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tyutin needs to be in this trade to make the money work but I think Howson wants to keep him since he's one of their best defenders. I've been looking at the Jacket's roster and the only player with significant salary who Howson would want to part with is Pahlsson.

meh, you look at past injuries too much

Who knows if Johansen will ever be half as good as hemsky

and Pahlsson is one of the best shut down centers,

but he IS not really known for his playoff performances

How about you look at another team besides Columbus, as they are thin on D

I mean, I know you think that we are aiming for a lottery pick and will pick Ryan Murray :th_rolf:

But all we need one more stud D-man for a shot at the playoffs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Touche. The first is overpayment and the latter is a steal. My guess is you are leaning towards a steal? I still think we should get at least a 1st rounder back any way you look at it.

I think it's actually a bit of an overpayment but I think the only way to get a player like Johansen would be an overpayment.

If we get Johansen, Columbus would have lost their 1st rounder two years in a row and if we demand another one that would be three years in a row. That's why I wouldn't ask for one unless they made franchise uncharted territory of the 2nd round of the playoffs.

meh, you look at past injuries too much

Who knows if Johansen will ever be half as good as hemsky

and Pahlsson is one of the best shut down centers,

but he IS not really known for his playoff performances

How about you look at another team besides Columbus, as they are thin on D

I mean, I know you think that we are aiming for a lottery pick and will pick Ryan Murray :th_rolf:

But all we need one more stud D-man for a shot at the playoffs

IMO, it is much more important for the Oilers to shore up the 2nd line centre position. Defencemen are easier to come by.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

meh, you look at past injuries too much

Who knows if Johansen will ever be half as good as hemsky

and Pahlsson is one of the best shut down centers,

but he IS not really known for his playoff performances

How about you look at another team besides Columbus, as they are thin on D

I mean, I know you think that we are aiming for a lottery pick and will pick Ryan Murray :th_rolf:

But all we need one more stud D-man for a shot at the playoffs

Johansen will fill a need down the middle. Pahlsson(his line) was instrumental in Anaheim winning the Cup in '07 as a shut down guy/PKer. If we threw in a 3-4 dman and got a top pairing dman in return would that justify trading Hemsky?

I think it's actually a bit of an overpayment but I think the only way to get a player like Johansen would be an overpayment.

Dependent on Hemsky's health. :th_facepalm2:

Haha...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not hostile but I find it interesting that Smyth's career high is a 70 point season and Hemsky has surpassed that number twice playing on some god awful oiler squads but numerous Edmonton fans want to trade him when he is our only first rounder to pan out (save Hall who will be better than 83).

I am mature enough to accept he will get traded but he has been one of the few Oilers that I have enjoyed watching through many of the garbage years we have endured.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think if anyone here knew just how little we would get for Hemsky they wouldn't trade him. We would not get that franchise defenseman we really need. Not that elite prospect in waiting. We would get less than we got for Penner since Penner had another year on his contract. We would get the rental price. We would get maybe what we got for Penner minus the first rounder

If you believe that Hemsky wants to be an Oiler, then flushing away all that loyalty and goodwill we've built for him for nothing would be pretty silly and I say the risk of losing Hemsky UFA for nothing is acceptable considering our deep prospect pool.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if we trade hemsky, i hope we get enough for him or don't bother, simple.

if hemsky stays, i hope he has a career year, again simple. we can examine hemsky closer next year when we see which guy shows up, the guy we hope he can be or the injury prone guy.

either way, the 2 sides are entrenched, not willing to give ground. i'm getting tired of beating a dead horse. i don't think there is anything left to say, because we are starting to repeat ourselves too many times. i for one will choose another subject for a while because the supporters agree & the deniers don't ( although there was a little in fighting going on ).

mean while, GO OILERS GO !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With all the rumors about him it has me worried. Honestly I would rather him stay here. He has all the talent to become a superstar, he just needs a lil more drive. I think he can get that from Ryan Smyth so it should work out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I honestly hope if we trade Hemsky he has an outstanding career. I hope he wins the Hart and the Conn Smythe in the same year. I like the guy, don't get me wrong and I do think he's a good hockey player but I personally am getting tired of "Next year Hemsky's going to have a break out season" and "Hemsky's on the ice and he's not getting up." Hemsky used to be easily my favorite player. I knew he was going to be good when I saw him in his rookie season. IMO this is a new Oilers team with new stars. They're the players we should build around.

The thing is the Hemsky has relatively bin the same player for years now. Every year fans are waiting/hoping for Hemsky to take another step in his progression. Datsyuk progressively got better every season and Zetterberg had a blowout season (85 points) at his 3rd season at the age of 25. The Sedin's progressed and surpassed any of Hemsky season point totals at 25 and 26. Hemsky could have another level but he also could not and his best could be an almost ppg player.

I think Hemsky improved defensively to be not a liability. I think his PK time was more due to lack of any other forwards to depend upon.

He did have 85 points at 25, but then got 68 the next year thanks to injury, then at 27 he got 92 and then the next 2 years he got injured (though not for a long time) and did less. Sounds familiar?

Datsyuk had 51 points at 25 years old and 68 points at 26 years old. At 27 he had 87 points.

Sedin twins at 25 had less then Hemsky (though not by that much) and at 26 is when they got more (though again not by that much) it wasn't till they were 29 years old they had the best point total in the NHL. Hemsky had more points then the Sedin in 2005-2006 and he was younger by 3 years. That to me is impressive, and that year Vancouver had Bertuzzi, Naslund, Morrison, Linden and so on. So it wasn't the team that it is now, but it was a pretty good team.

As for the statement that he's been the same for years is a lie. If you really watched Edmonton games the past couple of years you wouldn't be saying that. He has improved every year, becoming a more complete player like Datsyuk is right now. The only thing has been injuries, and most of his injuries were to his shoulder. If he would've gotten his surgery back in 2007, Hemsky might have already been playing a full season by now and probably would've had a career year. Instead he delayed it and it got worse, till eventually he did get the surgery before last year and this year on the other shoulder.

Now that his shoulder shouldn't bother him anymore, I don't see him getting injured that much. Yes he might miss up to 5 or 10 games, but that is not a reason to be alarmed, he might get a minor concussion or he might get sick or might get a groin injury. But all of those aren't season ending injuries. If his shoulder gives out again this year then it's something to be alarmed, cause even after surgery his shoulder are still giving him problems.

If Hemsky career was riddle with major concussions and all different kinds of injuries on his body where he missed long periods of time, then I would be concern and think of him made of glass, like Souray. But that is not the case, the times he missed alot of games were always because of his shoulder, the only other ones that came close were one year with a concussion where he missed 10 games and last year with a groin that wasn't that severe it was just he got back to early and made it worse, so had to wait a couple of more games again.

And again I think people are exagerating things a bit, he played 6 seasons above 60 games or more, 2 years where he had surgery and people are calling him made of glass and should be traded. So I'm guessing if Hall ever gets 6 years where he plays great but all of sudden for 2 seasons he gets injured, people are going to ask that we trade him? I can bet you no one will. The only reason why people are so adamant to get rid of Hemsky is because he's old news. Now that everyone has brand new toys (Hall, Eberle, Paarjarvi, RNH, Omark), they want to get rid of their old toys. Without realizing that to make a team complete you need both veterans and rookies, not just a locker room filled with 20 year olds. And on top of that Hemsky isn't even that old, he's only 27 years old.

You know alot of you guys remind me alot of the movie Toy Story :P.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree but it depends on the risk. If the downside is greater then the upside then yes. But if the upside is greater then the downside then no. If we trade Hemsky, what do you think he is worth? mind you that alof of you undervalue him and so the NHL probably does as well, so you won't get much. If he gets injured again, how much lower would his value be considering that it's not even that high now. But if he has a career year you gain alot more then what you would've gotten if you trade him.

So if the rookies live up to their potential then it's ok? So let me get this straight, you have faith on players that haven't proven anything yet, but you don't have faith on a player that came darn close to proving it? I don't know about you but that to me sounds like you are giving the rookies players way to much credit. I agree that Hall and Eberle and so on are going to be great in years to come. But I wouldn't count on it like fact and decide to get rid of our best player just because they might be better.

And you know that's being a hypocrite saying that you don't believe that Hemsky can reach his potential but you believe that Omark and others can? Hemsky is about 5 or 10 points away from reaching it, while Omark has 50 points or so away from even coming close to Hemsky. To me it sounds like Hemsky is much closer reaching his potential then Omark is.

Even Eberle is still far off from reaching Hemsky. The day that Eberle and Omark truly show that they are above Hemsky is the day I will agree that he's expendable. Until that day, Hemsky is our best player and you do not trade your best player unless you have a damn good reason. And no, assuming that he will get injured again after he had his surgery and all signs show that he's healthier does not count as a good reason. Everything else people talk about how he will cost to much and doesn't want to play here is only excuses to try and get rid of him. I haven't seen any signs of him asking for to much or wanting to leave. Every interview had shown the opposite except for 2 years ago, which had everyone frustrated because of all the injuries.

If Hemsky truly doesn't want to stay here or is asking for to much, then it's a good reason to get rid of him. If after his surgery he still gets his shoulder injured(and misses half a season), then it's a good reason to trade him. But that's the thing, we don't know what will happen, and because of that he deserves another chance. It's not like he got injured and nothing was done to fix it. He got surgery, and he deserves a chance to see if it did fix the problem or not.

Again like I said his value won't go down as much, right now all we would get for Hemsky is probably picks, if he gets injured again all we would get is picks though probably lower picks. That still doesn't help Edmonton right now or in the near futur and so to me there is no urgency to trade him.

You tell me a team is ready to give us a top 2 D or top goalie (with draft picks) or top no 1 line center for Hemsky then I wouldn't object (though I would be sad to see him go). But I highly doubt any team would give us that, since he isn't that great of a player according to some of you. I mean after all he isn't a superstar, which IMO is what you need to give to get what people want in return.

BTW did any of you ever thought that the sedins were going to be Hart Trophy winners when they started their careers in the first 4 or 5 years(if some of you say yes, I would say you would be lying)? Same for Datsyuk and Zetterberg and so on? We knew they were good, but if people talked about Sedins and so on like I am talking about Hemsky back then, they would've laughed. So this "I can't believe you are comparing Hemsky to Hart trophy winners." could've been said about Sedins and others before their prime. Yet look at where they are now and look at when they achieved it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He did have 85 points at 25, but then got 68 the next year thanks to injury, then at 27 he got 92 and then the next 2 years he got injured (though not for a long time) and did less. Sounds familiar?

Datsyuk had 51 points at 25 years old and 68 points at 26 years old. At 27 he had 87 points.

Sedin twins at 25 had less then Hemsky (though not by that much) and at 26 is when they got more (though again not by that much) it wasn't till they were 29 years old they had the best point total in the NHL. Hemsky had more points then the Sedin in 2005-2006 and he was younger by 3 years. That to me is impressive, and that year Vancouver had Bertuzzi, Naslund, Morrison, Linden and so on. So it wasn't the team that it is now, but it was a pretty good team.

As for the statement that he's been the same for years is a lie. If you really watched Edmonton games the past couple of years you wouldn't be saying that. He has improved every year, becoming a more complete player like Datsyuk is right now. The only thing has been injuries, and most of his injuries were to his shoulder. If he would've gotten his surgery back in 2007, Hemsky might have already been playing a full season by now and probably would've had a career year. Instead he delayed it and it got worse, till eventually he did get the surgery before last year and this year on the other shoulder.

Now that his shoulder shouldn't bother him anymore, I don't see him getting injured that much. Yes he might miss up to 5 or 10 games, but that is not a reason to be alarmed, he might get a minor concussion or he might get sick or might get a groin injury. But all of those aren't season ending injuries. If his shoulder gives out again this year then it's something to be alarmed, cause even after surgery his shoulder are still giving him problems.

If Hemsky career was riddle with major concussions and all different kinds of injuries on his body where he missed long periods of time, then I would be concern and think of him made of glass, like Souray. But that is not the case, the times he missed alot of games were always because of his shoulder, the only other ones that came close were one year with a concussion where he missed 10 games and last year with a groin that wasn't that severe it was just he got back to early and made it worse, so had to wait a couple of more games again.

And again I think people are exagerating things a bit, he played 6 seasons above 60 games or more, 2 years where he had surgery and people are calling him made of glass and should be traded. So I'm guessing if Hall ever gets 6 years where he plays great but all of sudden for 2 seasons he gets injured, people are going to ask that we trade him? I can bet you no one will. The only reason why people are so adamant to get rid of Hemsky is because he's old news. Now that everyone has brand new toys (Hall, Eberle, Paarjarvi, RNH, Omark), they want to get rid of their old toys. Without realizing that to make a team complete you need both veterans and rookies, not just a locker room filled with 20 year olds. And on top of that Hemsky isn't even that old, he's only 27 years old.

You know alot of you guys remind me alot of the movie Toy Story :P.

Nice post, Hemsky is still a huge part of this team and it is a balance of young and veterans that makes for a complete team. Love your reference to Toy Story btw , but I must admit it is true, in with the new out with the old. Unfortunately it is the way our society is. Personally, I rather enjoyed last season, I thought they were a competitive team and saw a glimpse of hope for next season. Hearing Cogs interview it seems like it is a pretty tight locker room. I saw that or felt rather that the atmosphere around the players was different from years past. They were actually smiling and seem like they wanted to be there. Don't mess it up yet people have a bit more patience and reevaluate after Christmas when Trade Deadline nears. Also has Hemsky not been in the top 4 players for several years now in points on our team despite being out with injuries? I would rather have those points on our side than against us, no?

Not hostile but I find it interesting that Smyth's career high is a 70 point season and Hemsky has surpassed that number twice playing on some god awful oiler squads but numerous Edmonton fans want to trade him when he is our only first rounder to pan out (save Hall who will be better than 83).

I am mature enough to accept he will get traded but he has been one of the few Oilers that I have enjoyed watching through many of the garbage years we have endured.

+1 couldn't agree more

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice post, Hemsky is still a huge part of this team and it is a balance of young and veterans that makes for a complete team. Love your reference to Toy Story btw , but I must admit it is true, in with the new out with the old. Unfortunately it is the way our society is. Personally, I rather enjoyed last season, I thought they were a competitive team and saw a glimpse of hope for next season. Hearing Cogs interview it seems like it is a pretty tight locker room. I saw that or felt rather that the atmosphere around the players was different from years past. They were actually smiling and seem like they wanted to be there. Don't mess it up yet people have a bit more patience and reevaluate after Christmas when Trade Deadline nears. Also has Hemsky not been in the top 4 players for several years now in points on our team despite being out with injuries? I would rather have those points on our side than against us, no?

+1 couldn't agree more

Same here, I noticed that the team was much closer together and enjoyed it last year even though they finished last. The locker room is better then it's ever been in the last couple of years. When you include the atmosphere that the locker room has now, and the futur of the Edmonton Oilers, players like Hemsky would love to play here and would do anything they could to stay.

You heard it from Penner and now Cogs who both would've like to stay and both talked about how they enjoyed playing here last year and can see the upside in the futur and wanting to be part of that. Hemsky has been saying the same things in interviews, you would think then that he wouldn't want to leave like some people are saying. And because of that most of the time players don't ask for full amount when renewing a contract. Especially since Hemsky knows very well that he's been injured the last 2 years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Same here, I noticed that the team was much closer together and enjoyed it last year even though they finished last. The locker room is better then it's ever been in the last couple of years. When you include the atmosphere that the locker room has now, and the futur of the Edmonton Oilers, players like Hemsky would love to play here and would do anything they could to stay.

You heard it from Penner and now Cogs who both would've like to stay and both talked about how they enjoyed playing here last year and can see the upside in the futur and wanting to be part of that. Hemsky has been saying the same things in interviews, you would think then that he wouldn't want to leave like some people are saying. And because of that most of the time players don't ask for full amount when renewing a contract. Especially since Hemsky knows very well that he's been injured the last 2 years.

i try to not read too much into what players say(even if good), i mean theyre not gonna say "no, i hate the city, the team sucks i dont want to play there"

these players are professionals who are trained to say all the right things. ill believe actions over words any day when it comes to hockey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i try to not read too much into what players say(even if good), i mean theyre not gonna say "no, i hate the city, the team sucks i dont want to play there"

these players are professionals who are trained to say all the right things. ill believe actions over words any day when it comes to hockey.

Unless your Sheldon Souray. Then you can do that... :th_facepalm2:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×