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Zuko

Ales Hemsky

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I think we are going to see a improved Hemmer this year, he's healthy and excited for what's to come. And doesn't hurt to have Smyth back and Reager gone, lol. Im calling for a incredible season for him.

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I think we are going to see a improved Hemmer this year, he's healthy and excited for what's to come. And doesn't hurt to have Smyth back and Reager gone, lol. Im calling for a incredible season for him.

Me to,

I'll say he goes

Gp g a pts

80 25. 65 90

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I think he's just predicting another injury and playing it safe. Shoulder injuries are one of the toughest to fix, depending on the location of the tear. I had a shoulder injury(rotator cuff) and it hasn't been the same since. If the younger players shine next year would you trade Hemsky for someone of equal or greater value? Maybe that #1 Dman we need? Goaltender? #1 Center? Certainly there are other options to explore. This is all just a 'wait and see' game now with Hemsky's health and the developpment of the younger guys.

i have stated before that if you are to trade hemsky, i would not be against it if the right pieces came back. conner has stated he doesn't think you would get a roster player for him. so if your not going to get any thing but picks or prospects that have not played in the NHL i say no. the deal has to have enough value coming back or what's the use ?

obviously conner is predicting hemsky will be injured. he may be right, but what if hemsky is healthy & primed for a career year ? what i'm saying is let's give hemsky till Xmas & see what we've got before making hasty decisions. there have been many posts back & forth & we actually agree once in a while.

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Cujo3000

Hemer83

mrtea

What should the team do with Hemsky if he gets injured for an extended period of time next season?

If he gets injured again, then we would be stuck with him, which I know is not the best thing. It's a gamble that's for sure. But you have to think it's a gamble worth taking, cause the upside to this if he gets a career year and plays healthy is huge.

I would understand more if the gamble was on a player like Gilbert or Brule and so on, the upside to them isn't as high. You can't expect them in their career year to be doing above 80points and possibly even reach above 90 or 100Pts.

Like mrtea said, give him till xmas and see how it goes. To me Hemsky and Hall are worth every opportunity we can give them. Cause again the upside to them is just to huge to pass up.

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In Oil Country We Believe!

Seriously, its getting old.

Are you hoping that the Oilers are gonna hire you from this?

Keep it up and perhaps we will start "critiquing" your video

Trust me, you don't want that

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Seriously, its getting old.

Are you hoping that the Oilers are gonna hire you from this?

Keep it up and perhaps we will start "critiquing" your video

Trust me, you don't want that

i am appreciating your sense of humor more & more.:th_rolf:

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Seriously, its getting old.

Are you hoping that the Oilers are gonna hire you from this?

Keep it up and perhaps we will start "critiquing" your video

Trust me, you don't want that

if it pops up again, I suggest we do so.

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wait till he's healthy, so he can play. DUH, some future GM.

like i said before you are singling out hemsky to be traded in his prime, just when he is ready for a career year. this does not make sense when you yourself said all you expect back is picks or prospects. so what then if one of the picks is another hemsky type player ? wait till he matures & then trade him away also ? with all the rookies on the team you want to trade hemsky for picks, when we clearly need a veteran presence. i seriously question your potential to be a future GM.

maybe you could be toronto's GM.:P

i have stated before that if you are to trade hemsky, i would not be against it if the right pieces came back. conner has stated he doesn't think you would get a roster player for him. so if your not going to get any thing but picks or prospects that have not played in the NHL i say no. the deal has to have enough value coming back or what's the use ?

obviously conner is predicting hemsky will be injured. he may be right, but what if hemsky is healthy & primed for a career year ? what i'm saying is let's give hemsky till Xmas & see what we've got before making hasty decisions. there have been many posts back & forth & we actually agree once in a while.

From what I'm understanding, if the Oilers were to trade Hemsky the only way you would see sense in the trade is if it were for a current asset(s) and not a future asset(s).

My question was if Hemsky had a serious injury again in the coming season, would you still feel confident enough to commit to Hemsky?

@ Conner:

If he were injured for a extended time next year, I would sign a 1 year deal and trade him at the next deadline or the draft. That would keep his value up.

So you're saying that if Hemsky has a serious injury again this coming season the team should trade him he following season hence you would switch your stance from keeping him to trading him if he gets seriously hurt again?

PS: You're at 902

If he gets injured again, then we would be stuck with him, which I know is not the best thing. It's a gamble that's for sure. But you have to think it's a gamble worth taking, cause the upside to this if he gets a career year and plays healthy is huge.

I would understand more if the gamble was on a player like Gilbert or Brule and so on, the upside to them isn't as high. You can't expect them in their career year to be doing above 80points and possibly even reach above 90 or 100Pts.

Like mrtea said, give him till xmas and see how it goes. To me Hemsky and Hall are worth every opportunity we can give them. Cause again the upside to them is just to huge to pass up.

Are you saying if he gets hurt that is an unfavourable position of the team and we should have traded him but the gamble of him not getting hurt is worth the risk of him getting hurt?

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Are you saying if he gets hurt that is an unfavourable position of the team and we should have traded him but the gamble of him not getting hurt is worth the risk of him getting hurt?

Pretty much, if he gets injured I would guess he gets a contract for 1 year and he probably gets traded next year. Though his value would have gone down because of that, it wouldn't be that much different for us. Because whether we trade him now or next year is stock is pretty low because of the last 2 years, and at most we would get some picks. Though I know alot of people would like to have no 1 overall picks for the next 10 years, realistically speaking we can't keep finishing last forever. At one point or another you have to make a push for the playoff and hopefully the stanley cup.

We have a better chance of making it with Hemsky in it then without especially since all we would get is some picks and maybe some prospect players, which might end up helping us a couple of years down the line.

And like I said since Hemsky has the potential to be one of the elite players in this league, who can easily reach above 80 and 90 points, I can even see him reaching 100pts with the right players around him (which we have now), it's worth the risk of him being injured again. Like I said in the previous post the upside is just to good to pass up. If Hemsky was around 32 or 33 years old then it might be a different story. But right now he is just getting into his prime. Trading him now and having the risk of him getting a career year elsewhere would end up biting us in the quantum singularity.

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From what I'm understanding, if the Oilers were to trade Hemsky the only way you would see sense in the trade is if it were for a current asset(s) and not a future asset(s).

My question was if Hemsky had a serious injury again in the coming season, would you still feel confident enough to commit to Hemsky?

So you're saying that if Hemsky has a serious injury again this coming season the team should trade him he following season hence you would switch your stance from keeping him to trading him if he gets seriously hurt again?

PS: You're at 902

Are you saying if he gets hurt that is an unfavourable position of the team and we should have traded him but the gamble of him not getting hurt is worth the risk of him getting hurt?

obviously i am not as concerned as you are with hemsky's health. he has said he is going to be healthy by season & he said he is excited the way the team is going. i choose to believe him.

if we were to trade him & all we got back is assets it had better have some high end picks. go ahead i'm listening, but remember it has to be at least equal value or better. but by the way, since you seem to under value him we still may be a distance apart. oh great now you've got me being tambi.

on the serious injury part, what kind of injury, how long is he out for, what is the severity of said injury? see this is why i don't agree, i am hoping he is healthy & you are throwing out a bunch of what if's. it's a debate between an optimist & a pessimist. not much middle ground.

as an oiler fan ( root word fanatic ) i cheer for my oilers to win. but if i was a pessimist i might say " oh oh, we just stepped on the ice, what's going to happen this time ? is hemsky going get checked & re-injure his shoulder, maybe khabby's going to let in a league record ? all our rookies suck & it's all managements fault. it's our coach he sucks too. we rushed RNH & now he's ruined, i knew we shouldn't have picked him."

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i have stated before that if you are to trade hemsky, i would not be against it if the right pieces came back. conner has stated he doesn't think you would get a roster player for him. so if your not going to get any thing but picks or prospects that have not played in the NHL i say no. the deal has to have enough value coming back or what's the use ?

obviously conner is predicting hemsky will be injured. he may be right, but what if hemsky is healthy & primed for a career year ? what i'm saying is let's give hemsky till Xmas & see what we've got before making hasty decisions. there have been many posts back & forth & we actually agree once in a while.

I didn't know that. There I'd have to disagree. And I also wouldn't make the trade unless a proven top end NHL talent came back our way. But if for some reason we couldn't acquire a top line talent(forward or D) we just might have to settle for a top blue chip prospect and early picks. It all depends on how this year goes for him.

Exactly. Hemsky and management can say his shoulder is close to being 100% all they want. We have to wait and see if his shoulders will hold up. It will be interesting to see if this will have any impact on his game or not. Ie, will he be going into the tough areas and putting himself at risk getting injured again, ect.

As I stated earlier, it's a wait and see game now with Hemsky. Management has plenty of options with any scenerio that arises. Should be an interesting/exciting year for Oilers fans. Personally, I'd trade him either way.

If we can get good value(and fill a need on this team NOW) in exchange for Hemsky why not do it? We have plenty of depth at the wings with a lot of young talent ready and waiting to step in. Depending on how the young guys develop will be a major factor. If the younger guys need one more year, sign Hemsky to a 2 year extension and trade him at the deadline in 2012. That way he will still be signed for another year and his trade value would be that much more appealing(depending on the amount of $$$). Of course, the return would be dependent on his health.

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And like I said since Hemsky has the potential to be one of the elite players in this league, who can easily reach above 80 and 90 points, I can even see him reaching 100pts with the right players around him (which we have now), it's worth the risk of him being injured again. Like I said in the previous post the upside is just to good to pass up. If Hemsky was around 32 or 33 years old then it might be a different story. But right now he is just getting into his prime. Trading him now and having the risk of him getting a career year elsewhere would end up biting us in the quantum singularity.

I'm sorry, but he has never posted 80+ points. The closest he came to it was 77. 77 does not = 80. Almost a PPG player does not = a PPG. True, Hemsky may reach those numbers, but with who playing beside him? Most posters here have Hemsky playing with Smyth and Horcoff. Though Hemsky did reach 77 points with those 2 as linemates before, can he surpass those totals with the SAME players that are now 5-6 years older? If Hemsky was playing with RNH and Hall you could make a better arguement there. I don't see Hemsky putting up 80, 90 or 100 points with Horcoff*choke* and Smyth.

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obviously i am not as concerned as you are with hemsky's health. he has said he is going to be healthy by season & he said he is excited the way the team is going. i choose to believe him.

if we were to trade him & all we got back is assets it had better have some high end picks. go ahead i'm listening, but remember it has to be at least equal value or better. but by the way, since you seem to under value him we still may be a distance apart. oh great now you've got me being tambi.

on the serious injury part, what kind of injury, how long is he out for, what is the severity of said injury? see this is why i don't agree, i am hoping he is healthy & you are throwing out a bunch of what if's. it's a debate between an optimist & a pessimist. not much middle ground.

as an oiler fan ( root word fanatic ) i cheer for my oilers to win. but if i was a pessimist i might say " oh oh, we just stepped on the ice, what's going to happen this time ? is hemsky going get checked & re-injure his shoulder, maybe khabby's going to let in a league record ? all our rookies suck & it's all managements fault. it's our coach he sucks too. we rushed RNH & now he's ruined, i knew we shouldn't have picked him."

I wouldn't say pessimistic. I would say more or less trying to do what is best for the team and getting as much as possible out of a player who's health may be in question. Now, I'm in the same boat. I would much rather try to trade Hemsky for another need rather than hope he stays healthy. 'What if he does get injured again' is a pretty valid concern.

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I wouldn't say pessimistic. I would say more or less trying to do what is best for the team and getting as much as possible out of a player who's health may be in question. Now, I'm in the same boat. I would much rather try to trade Hemsky for another need rather than hope he stays healthy. 'What if he does get injured again' is a pretty valid concern.

Aren't you the same dude who adamantly predicted a few weeks ago we wouldn't make the playoffs?

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Aren't you the same dude who adamantly predicted a few weeks ago we wouldn't make the playoffs?

That was before all of our recent acquisitions(excluding Smyth). And yes, now that the Oilers got a lot tougher to play against maybe there is still a chance. But I still believe the Oilers are 2-3 pieces away from being a legitimate contender depending on how the younger guys develop. What does this have to do with the topic in this thread?

Edit: Oh right...me saying we won't make the playoffs is considered 'pessimistic'? I'm just being a realist. Trying not to drink too much cool-aid. Do I hope they make the playoffs? Absolutely. Do I think they will? No. That's just my opinion.

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I wouldn't say pessimistic. I would say more or less trying to do what is best for the team and getting as much as possible out of a player who's health may be in question. Now, I'm in the same boat. I would much rather try to trade Hemsky for another need rather than hope he stays healthy. 'What if he does get injured again' is a pretty valid concern.

i've seen way too many players reach their peak at hemsky's age & turn the corner to stardom. look at the sedin twins. very similar type players to hemsky, it took them what 8 years? i think hemsky is due since he is in his physical prime. it's worth the risk if your only expecting fringe players or picks that may never pan out. at the least hemsky is an 80 point guy if healthy, since he was PPG player when injured the last two seasons. also hemsky was playing while he was injured showing he could still perform while injured. what can he do when healthy now? there seems to be more upside to keeping him, especially now that we have toughness to stop players running our talented players.

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Pretty much, if he gets injured I would guess he gets a contract for 1 year and he probably gets traded next year. Though his value would have gone down because of that, it wouldn't be that much different for us. Because whether we trade him now or next year is stock is pretty low because of the last 2 years, and at most we would get some picks. Though I know alot of people would like to have no 1 overall picks for the next 10 years, realistically speaking we can't keep finishing last forever. At one point or another you have to make a push for the playoff and hopefully the stanley cup.

We have a better chance of making it with Hemsky in it then without especially since all we would get is some picks and maybe some prospect players, which might end up helping us a couple of years down the line.

And like I said since Hemsky has the potential to be one of the elite players in this league, who can easily reach above 80 and 90 points, I can even see him reaching 100pts with the right players around him (which we have now), it's worth the risk of him being injured again. Like I said in the previous post the upside is just to good to pass up. If Hemsky was around 32 or 33 years old then it might be a different story. But right now he is just getting into his prime. Trading him now and having the risk of him getting a career year elsewhere would end up biting us in the quantum singularity.

With the uncertainty of next year's CBA and the hypothetical situation where Hemsky gets injured again this coming season, wouldn't you say that his value would probably higher now than it would be if he got hurt and we signed him again? What if Hemsky gets hurt again and doesn't want to sign a 1 year contract?

obviously i am not as concerned as you are with hemsky's health. he has said he is going to be healthy by season & he said he is excited the way the team is going. i choose to believe him.

if we were to trade him & all we got back is assets it had better have some high end picks. go ahead i'm listening, but remember it has to be at least equal value or better. but by the way, since you seem to under value him we still may be a distance apart. oh great now you've got me being tambi.

on the serious injury part, what kind of injury, how long is he out for, what is the severity of said injury? see this is why i don't agree, i am hoping he is healthy & you are throwing out a bunch of what if's. it's a debate between an optimist & a pessimist. not much middle ground.

as an oiler fan ( root word fanatic ) i cheer for my oilers to win. but if i was a pessimist i might say " oh oh, we just stepped on the ice, what's going to happen this time ? is hemsky going get checked & re-injure his shoulder, maybe khabby's going to let in a league record ? all our rookies suck & it's all managements fault. it's our coach he sucks too. we rushed RNH & now he's ruined, i knew we shouldn't have picked him."

Would you agree that Hemsky saying that he's healthy doesn't mean he won't get hurt this coming season?

Do you agree or disagree when someone gets a shoulder surgery (both shoulders) or a concussion it increases the likelyhood of having another shoulder injury or concussion?

Do you agree that trading Hemsky now when he's had two injury filled seasons and the surgeries to repair these injuries would give the Oilers more value than if (sorry, I know you don't like that word) he got another injury for the 3rd season in a row?

Agree or disagree: Hemsky might want a long term contract with a NMC, especially considering his injury history (for stable finacial future) and the trade rumours

Agree or disagree: the Oilers as an organization are deepest on the wing and possibly one of the deepest in the league on the wing.

Agree or disagree: It is very likely that the salary cap will drop in the new CBA.

Agree or disagree: the Oilers are projected to be spending quite a lot of money in the future on the wing (Hall, Eberle, Paajarvi)

Agree or disagree: the Oilers may be shooting for the playoffs but it's at least going to be very difficult in a deep conference ie our chances are not great. (do non-Oiler fans think the Oilers are making the playoffs next year?)

Agree or disagree (last one): hypothetically if you can know with absolute certainty that the Oilers will not make the playoffs in 2011-12, but you don't know that Hemsky will or will not get injured, would it not be in the best interest of the team to trade Hemsky because of his unknown injury future, the depth of the organization on the wing, not knowing what a future Hemsky contract will warrant, the unknown CBA, the amount of money the team will have to spend on the wing the team with the Oilers unlikely to make the playoffs.

Nugent-Hopkins: Was a great pick. Oilers will eventually send back down to Junior.

I really like how the organization as a whole is operating. Patient and calculating.

I didn't know that. There I'd have to disagree. And I also wouldn't make the trade unless a proven top end NHL talent came back our way. But if for some reason we couldn't acquire a top line talent(forward or D) we just might have to settle for a top blue chip prospect and early picks. It all depends on how this year goes for him.

Exactly. Hemsky and management can say his shoulder is close to being 100% all they want. We have to wait and see if his shoulders will hold up. It will be interesting to see if this will have any impact on his game or not. Ie, will he be going into the tough areas and putting himself at risk getting injured again, ect.

As I stated earlier, it's a wait and see game now with Hemsky. Management has plenty of options with any scenerio that arises. Should be an interesting/exciting year for Oilers fans. Personally, I'd trade him either way.

If we can get good value(and fill a need on this team NOW) in exchange for Hemsky why not do it? We have plenty of depth at the wings with a lot of young talent ready and waiting to step in. Depending on how the young guys develop will be a major factor. If the younger guys need one more year, sign Hemsky to a 2 year extension and trade him at the deadline in 2013. That way he will still be signed for another year and his trade value would be that much more appealing(depending on the amount of $$$).

I'm sorry, but he has never posted 80+ points. The closest he came to it was 77. 77 does not = 80. Almost a PPG player does not = a PPG. True, Hemsky may reach those numbers, but with who playing beside him? Most posters here have Hemsky playing with Smyth and Horcoff. Though Hemsky did reach 77 points with those 2 as linemates before, can he surpass those totals with the SAME players that are now 5-6 years older? If Hemsky was playing with RNH and Hall you could make a better arguement there. I don't see Hemsky putting up 80, 90 or 100 points with Horcoff*choke* and Smyth.

I wouldn't say pessimistic. I would say more or less trying to do what is best for the team and getting as much as possible out of a player who's health may be in question. Now, I'm in the same boat. I would much rather try to trade Hemsky for another need rather than hope he stays healthy. 'What if he does get injured again' is a pretty valid concern.

Thank you, the bolded statements are exactly how I feel.

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ok conner, i'm going to answer your questions point by point. but first i want to point out, that i said i would trade him for the right package. you chose to ignore this.

i said i was listening to what kind of trade proposal for picks you had in mind. you chose to ignore this also.

i asked you what kind of injury, the length & the severity. you chose to ignore this also.

then you try & switch it around to ask a bunch of what if's on top of what if's. i've said it before i'll say it again, you try & manipulate the facts to support your argument. i don't really care for people who are scared to answer a question so they ask their own to throw you off. you can't dazzle me with brilliance, & you sure can't baffle me with B.S.

now i will answer your questions even though you chose not to answer mine.

1.i believe hemsky when he says he will be healthy for the season, but anyone can be injured conner surely you know that. oh by the way, i already stated that, so there was no reason for that question.

2. it does increase the possibility of a re-injury. but by how much no one knows? are you a doctor that has examined him? do you know better than everyone else?

3.no conner it would not give you more value, because that is what the other GM will say to get him cheap. if you want to get more value, play him & prove he's healthy, then increase his value. wait till xmas like i said earlier.

4.if hemsky wants a no trade, i would never give it to him. i also would not sign him longer than 3 years, preferably 2 years.( i think it is foolish you would even ask that,)

5.they are deepest on wing, yes. in the league no. but you fail to see that we are short on veterans. funny how you ask manipulative questions. funny how you don't answer straight forward ones.

6. who cares, who knows ? just trying to muddy the waters again, pathetic.

7. of course or would you rather they walk away? don't try & say hemsky's contract hurts them because i would sign him for 2 years & end when they are due. by that time if we want to keep him, if he's still here we can get him cheaper or trade him then.

8. the oilers are shooting to make the play offs & it will be very difficult if they make it at all. i think they will be close, but i've said it before & you know this. there is no reason to ask this question other than just trying manipulate again. would a non oiler fan think the oilers are going to make the play offs? well you are better suited to answer that question.

9. hypothetically i don't think you can answer that ridicules question. first off i don't give them the time of day. but then you load it with if this, if that on top of if this. i've got one for you, F you, woops forgot the I.

i know you would like to think you are patient & calculating, but guess what, your pathetic & manipulating.

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ok conner, i'm going to answer your questions point by point. but first i want to point out, that i said i would trade him for the right package. you chose to ignore this.

i said i was listening to what kind of trade proposal for picks you had in mind. you chose to ignore this also.

i asked you what kind of injury, the length & the severity. you chose to ignore this also.

then you try & switch it around to ask a bunch of what if's on top of what if's. i've said it before i'll say it again, you try & manipulate the facts to support your argument. i don't really care for people who are scared to answer a question so they ask their own to throw you off. you can't dazzle me with brilliance, & you sure can't baffle me with B.S.

now i will answer your questions even though you chose not to answer mine.

1.i believe hemsky when he says he will be healthy for the season, but anyone can be injured conner surely you know that. oh by the way, i already stated that, so there was no reason for that question.

2. it does increase the possibility of a re-injury. but by how much no one knows? are you a doctor that has examined him? do you know better than everyone else?

3.no conner it would not give you more value, because that is what the other GM will say to get him cheap. if you want to get more value, play him & prove he's healthy, then increase his value. wait till xmas like i said earlier.

4.if hemsky wants a no trade, i would never give it to him. i also would not sign him longer than 3 years, preferably 2 years.( i think it is foolish you would even ask that,)

5.they are deepest on wing, yes. in the league no. but you fail to see that we are short on veterans. funny how you ask manipulative questions. funny how you don't answer straight forward ones.

6. who cares, who knows ? just trying to muddy the waters again, pathetic.

7. of course or would you rather they walk away? don't try & say hemsky's contract hurts them because i would sign him for 2 years & end when they are due. by that time if we want to keep him, if he's still here we can get him cheaper or trade him then.

8. the oilers are shooting to make the play offs & it will be very difficult if they make it at all. i think they will be close, but i've said it before & you know this. there is no reason to ask this question other than just trying manipulate again. would a non oiler fan think the oilers are going to make the play offs? well you are better suited to answer that question.

9. hypothetically i don't think you can answer that ridicules question. first off i don't give them the time of day. but then you load it with if this, if that on top of if this. i've got one for you, F you, woops forgot the I.

i know you would like to think you are patient & calculating, but guess what, your pathetic & manipulating.

I'm trying to have an intellectual discussion. You're bringing it down with your insults.

I will answer your questions. I originally thought your questions were more rhetorical in nature.

With current roster assets which IMO I don't see a future with (Hemsky, Gagner, Gilbert, Smid), I would like the Oilers to acquire a centre prospect with size/physicalness and has top line potential. Not many of those, (Schenn, Johansen, Bjugstad) and if those are unavailble than at least 1st rounders come this draft and other prospects.

Yes I am not a doctor and I don't know what injury, if any, that Hemsky could incur this coming season.

My questions were meant to show you my train of thought and how I come the conclusion that IMO it is best for the team to trade Hemsky.

I am choosing to not try to insult you back. Lets try to be above this.

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ok conner, i'm going to answer your questions point by point. but first i want to point out, that i said i would trade him for the right package. you chose to ignore this.

i said i was listening to what kind of trade proposal for picks you had in mind. you chose to ignore this also.

i asked you what kind of injury, the length & the severity. you chose to ignore this also.

then you try & switch it around to ask a bunch of what if's on top of what if's. i've said it before i'll say it again, you try & manipulate the facts to support your argument. i don't really care for people who are scared to answer a question so they ask their own to throw you off. you can't dazzle me with brilliance, & you sure can't baffle me with B.S.

now i will answer your questions even though you chose not to answer mine.

1.i believe hemsky when he says he will be healthy for the season, but anyone can be injured conner surely you know that. oh by the way, i already stated that, so there was no reason for that question.

2. it does increase the possibility of a re-injury. but by how much no one knows? are you a doctor that has examined him? do you know better than everyone else?

3.no conner it would not give you more value, because that is what the other GM will say to get him cheap. if you want to get more value, play him & prove he's healthy, then increase his value. wait till xmas like i said earlier.

4.if hemsky wants a no trade, i would never give it to him. i also would not sign him longer than 3 years, preferably 2 years.( i think it is foolish you would even ask that,)

5.they are deepest on wing, yes. in the league no. but you fail to see that we are short on veterans. funny how you ask manipulative questions. funny how you don't answer straight forward ones.

6. who cares, who knows ? just trying to muddy the waters again, pathetic.

7. of course or would you rather they walk away? don't try & say hemsky's contract hurts them because i would sign him for 2 years & end when they are due. by that time if we want to keep him, if he's still here we can get him cheaper or trade him then.

8. the oilers are shooting to make the play offs & it will be very difficult if they make it at all. i think they will be close, but i've said it before & you know this. there is no reason to ask this question other than just trying manipulate again. would a non oiler fan think the oilers are going to make the play offs? well you are better suited to answer that question.

9. hypothetically i don't think you can answer that ridicules question. first off i don't give them the time of day. but then you load it with if this, if that on top of if this. i've got one for you, F you, woops forgot the I.

i know you would like to think you are patient & calculating, but guess what, your pathetic & manipulating.

+1000000000

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First off...why would the CBA even be brought up? If the cap does go down as a result, then it would likely include a clause that would include salary drop for all signed players. That's what happened when the cap originally came into effect. But this doesn't even belong in this thread....

As for Hemsky, while it's pretty obvious he's being shopped, you can bet the asking price is going to be a top 4 D-man. We're talking Dubinsky or Bogosian. The Jets have stated that they're looking at re-signing Bogo so I doubt that's the team we dance with (though it could happen).

But beyond that, I doubt he gets traded. My guess is that the Oilers keep his status as is until Christmas. Then provided he stays healthy, we give him an extension early in the new year. He'll ask for the NTC but I doubt it'll happen. Maybe a limited one similar to what Heatley currently has (can only say no to 10 teams).

As for years...that's a tough one. I mean we're talking about millions of $$$ here. If he stays healthy, then he's worth every penny. But if keeps loosing large chunks of a season due to injury, then it becomes a major issue. That said, I'd give him a 4 year contract, limited NTC...money...

A quick question, does the current CBA allow for bonuses based on number of games played?? Maybe that could be worked in to up the dollars to the proper amounts but protect the Oilers just in case he keeps getting hurt....

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With the uncertainty of next year's CBA and the hypothetical situation where Hemsky gets injured again this coming season, wouldn't you say that his value would probably higher now than it would be if he got hurt and we signed him again? What if Hemsky gets hurt again and doesn't want to sign a 1 year contract?

Yes his value would go down and we would've lost an opportunity to get something good out of him, but let me ask you this question then.

If Hemsky ends up being able to play a full season and he gets above 80 points which we all know he's capable of regardless of what NameBrandOil thinks (saying that Hemsky is not an 80 point player because of 3 measly points that he could've gotten with that last game he didn't play is childish at best) and we traded him away to someone else, so he got those points with another team. Would you still feel like it was a good idea to trade him?

Because of what I just mentioned before don't you think that that possibility is feasible and because of it is worth the risk?

Again many players have not peaked till 27 years old, if people would bother to check the NHL stats and go look at all the top current players and even those in the past. You will notice that most of the time players don't reach their prime till 27 or 28 years old and keep going till around 32 or so years old. Hemsky is just getting into his, trading someone at their peak just because he would've given us the most value in return is not a good reason to trade someone. There has to be many other reasons involved then just being at his highest value.

If the NHL worked like that, there would be tons of crazy trades going on (even crazier then what we see at trade deadline day). I mean you would see Ovechkin and Crosby and Datsyuk be traded already. The Sedin twins after last year stanley cup playoffs would be traded since they are at their highest in value.

You have to understand that it comes to more then just value, it depends also if the player wants to play here and for how much and if he fills a need on the roster.

Hemsky wants to play here, I don't believe he will ask for much and he fills a big need on the roster. That need is the ability to be PPG player or close to it on a team that has none currently. On top of that he improved on other areas as well, he was one of our better players defensively last year. Better then Horcoff which is saying alot. When he was on the PK he was one of our better PK players.

Then add to the fact that this year might finally be his first year in a long time where he's healthy and with the team we have, I would bet on him getting a career year this year. That doesn't mean I'm 100% right. It's very possible that he might end up getting injured and we would have given up a chance to trade him before he got injured where his value was better. But after what I mentioned above, he is worth the risk.

Would you not agree that Datsyuk and Zetterberg are worth the risk? If you do then why wouldn't you agree on Hemsky then. You might talk about how Datsyuk and Zetterberg had more points, but they didn't reach that level till they were 27-28 years old. And have had just as much injuries as Hemsky. Yet Detroit kept them, and look at what they've become, if they would've done what you are trying to do now with Hemsky, they would've ended up regretting it.

Alot of people don't realize that most of the superstars we see now didn't start off as one. They had potential but it took alot of time. People see Hemsky's career and try to compare it to players who are currently on their prime or have been. And that is not a fair assessment. Why not compare him to those same players but before they got their career year, and you will notice that they all have had almost similar careers (point wise I mean).

As for NameBrandOil, you can talk about how Hemsky didn't get 80 points and so it doesn't count but remember that he did it with players that weren't that great offensively except for Smyth. Remember that he did it as a 22 year old. Remember that thanks to Hemsky, Horcoff had a career year that year as well, which shows that Hemsky can make players around him better. Imagine him playing with Hall and RNH. Even reunited on the Smyth Horcoff line he will still be able to produce alot. Cause Smyth is the perfect player for someone like Hemsky. Hemsky makes unbelievable passes, having someone staying in front of the net recieving those passes will result in alot of goals. Heck look at Horcoff last year, how many goals bounced off him playing with Hall and Eberle, and Smyth is a much better player.

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@ conner. i have no problem staying upbeat. as long as i don't feel that someone is trying to pull a fast one by trying to be cute & laying traps instead of just having an honest debate. to be honest i was getting to the end of my patience, but that's because i recognized the tactics from many other debates in the past. you play straight with me & i'll do the same with you. just remember i've seen parlor tricks before. if i think your punching below the belt, expect one back.

if you want an intellectual conversation, i'm willing. next time keep the gloves up & so will i.

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First off...why would the CBA even be brought up? If the cap does go down as a result, then it would likely include a clause that would include salary drop for all signed players. That's what happened when the cap originally came into effect. But this doesn't even belong in this thread....

As for Hemsky, while it's pretty obvious he's being shopped, you can bet the asking price is going to be a top 4 D-man. We're talking Dubinsky or Bogosian. The Jets have stated that they're looking at re-signing Bogo so I doubt that's the team we dance with (though it could happen).

But beyond that, I doubt he gets traded. My guess is that the Oilers keep his status as is until Christmas. Then provided he stays healthy, we give him an extension early in the new year. He'll ask for the NTC but I doubt it'll happen. Maybe a limited one similar to what Heatley currently has (can only say no to 10 teams).

As for years...that's a tough one. I mean we're talking about millions of $$$ here. If he stays healthy, then he's worth every penny. But if keeps loosing large chunks of a season due to injury, then it becomes a major issue. That said, I'd give him a 4 year contract, limited NTC...money...

A quick question, does the current CBA allow for bonuses based on number of games played?? Maybe that could be worked in to up the dollars to the proper amounts but protect the Oilers just in case he keeps getting hurt....

The last time there was a new CBA the Oilers positioned themselves very nicely to acquire big assets for relatively cheap. Signing players before the new CBA might prove to be a bad move.

I hope we get a centre but a defenceman would be good too.

Hemsky at 4 years is a long time, especially for a guy who sounds like he could take him or leave him.

Not sure about games played bonuses.

Yes his value would go down and we would've lost an opportunity to get something good out of him, but let me ask you this question then.

If Hemsky ends up being able to play a full season and he gets above 80 points which we all know he's capable of regardless of what NameBrandOil thinks (saying that Hemsky is not an 80 point player because of 3 measly points that he could've gotten with that last game he didn't play is childish at best) and we traded him away to someone else, so he got those points with another team. Would you still feel like it was a good idea to trade him?

Because of what I just mentioned before don't you think that that possibility is feasible and because of it is worth the risk?

Again many players have not peaked till 27 years old, if people would bother to check the NHL stats and go look at all the top current players and even those in the past. You will notice that most of the time players don't reach their prime till 27 or 28 years old and keep going till around 32 or so years old. Hemsky is just getting into his, trading someone at their peak just because he would've given us the most value in return is not a good reason to trade someone. There has to be many other reasons involved then just being at his highest value.

If the NHL worked like that, there would be tons of crazy trades going on (even crazier then what we see at trade deadline day). I mean you would see Ovechkin and Crosby and Datsyuk be traded already. The Sedin twins after last year stanley cup playoffs would be traded since they are at their highest in value.

You have to understand that it comes to more then just value, it depends also if the player wants to play here and for how much and if he fills a need on the roster.

Hemsky wants to play here, I don't believe he will ask for much and he fills a big need on the roster. That need is the ability to be PPG player or close to it on a team that has none currently. On top of that he improved on other areas as well, he was one of our better players defensively last year. Better then Horcoff which is saying alot. When he was on the PK he was one of our better PK players.

Then add to the fact that this year might finally be his first year in a long time where he's healthy and with the team we have, I would bet on him getting a career year this year. That doesn't mean I'm 100% right. It's very possible that he might end up getting injured and we would have given up a chance to trade him before he got injured where his value was better. But after what I mentioned above, he is worth the risk.

Would you not agree that Datsyuk and Zetterberg are worth the risk? If you do then why wouldn't you agree on Hemsky then. You might talk about how Datsyuk and Zetterberg had more points, but they didn't reach that level till they were 27-28 years old. And have had just as much injuries as Hemsky. Yet Detroit kept them, and look at what they've become, if they would've done what you are trying to do now with Hemsky, they would've ended up regretting it.

Alot of people don't realize that most of the superstars we see now didn't start off as one. They had potential but it took alot of time. People see Hemsky's career and try to compare it to players who are currently on their prime or have been. And that is not a fair assessment. Why not compare him to those same players but before they got their career year, and you will notice that they all have had almost similar careers (point wise I mean).

As for NameBrandOil, you can talk about how Hemsky didn't get 80 points and so it doesn't count but remember that he did it with players that weren't that great offensively except for Smyth. Remember that he did it as a 22 year old. Remember that thanks to Hemsky, Horcoff had a career year that year as well, which shows that Hemsky can make players around him better. Imagine him playing with Hall and RNH. Even reunited on the Smyth Horcoff line he will still be able to produce alot. Cause Smyth is the perfect player for someone like Hemsky. Hemsky makes unbelievable passes, having someone staying in front of the net recieving those passes will result in alot of goals. Heck look at Horcoff last year, how many goals bounced off him playing with Hall and Eberle, and Smyth is a much better player.

I honestly hope if we trade Hemsky he has an outstanding career. I hope he wins the Hart and the Conn Smythe in the same year. I like the guy, don't get me wrong and I do think he's a good hockey player but I personally am getting tired of "Next year Hemsky's going to have a break out season" and "Hemsky's on the ice and he's not getting up." Hemsky used to be easily my favorite player. I knew he was going to be good when I saw him in his rookie season. IMO this is a new Oilers team with new stars. They're the players we should build around.

The thing is the Hemsky has relatively bin the same player for years now. Every year fans are waiting/hoping for Hemsky to take another step in his progression. Datsyuk progressively got better every season and Zetterberg had a blowout season (85 points) at his 3rd season at the age of 25. The Sedin's progressed and surpassed any of Hemsky season point totals at 25 and 26. Hemsky could have another level but he also could not and his best could be an almost ppg player.

I think Hemsky improved defensively to be not a liability. I think his PK time was more due to lack of any other forwards to depend upon.

If any year is going to be Hemsky's year, this would be it.

@ conner. i have no problem staying upbeat. as long as i don't feel that someone is trying to pull a fast one by trying to be cute & laying traps instead of just having an honest debate. to be honest i was getting to the end of my patience, but that's because i recognized the tactics from many other debates in the past. you play straight with me & i'll do the same with you. just remember i've seen parlor tricks before. if i think your punching below the belt, expect one back.

if you want an intellectual conversation, i'm willing. next time keep the gloves up & so will i.

ok

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