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KEN HOLLAND NEW GM! 5 year deal!

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1 hour ago, OilyJetFan said:

WIthout looking at the details, I bet the vast majority of those deals are cap friendly, except ours. I don't mind a NTC or NMC in a contract but only if we get a bit of a break. What makes PC's deals so bad is he OVERPAID the players on the NMC's to begin with (except McDavid as I believe he has one as well) - but Lucic, Sekera, and Russell all were overpaid and IMO if the agent wants that much money, then a NMC or NTC should not be included. 

Koskinen is the 4th.

My bet is we wouldn't have those guys without the NMV, NTC

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holland has said he will gather information from people around the team to complete his understanding of the current roster .  If not the OBC, then who?

I would bet the farm that kh will make whatever move he thinks will best suit his vision of a good foundation team.  That might include the OBC, but at least I feel that they will not be making decisions any more.  it will be interesting to see this all play out.  Reality TV, folks.  


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in pursuit of the McDraft sweepstakes...

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2 hours ago, WHA fan said:

Since you brought up Kosk, I watched the Dallas game last night. Boy, Bishop was holding a clinic on glove saves. Reminds me how they are supposed to go. Lightning fast and actually catching the puck. 

Yet he gave up 10 goals in the series over his blocker side shoulder. 

Edited by IGibb
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58 minutes ago, IGibb said:

Yet he gave up 10 goals in the series over his blocker side shoulder. 

Ouch.

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3 hours ago, OilyJetFan said:

WIthout looking at the details, I bet the vast majority of those deals are cap friendly, except ours. I don't mind a NTC or NMC in a contract but only if we get a bit of a break. What makes PC's deals so bad is he OVERPAID the players on the NMC's to begin with (except McDavid as I believe he has one as well) - but Lucic, Sekera, and Russell all were overpaid and IMO if the agent wants that much money, then a NMC or NTC should not be included. 

You should have looked it up. Cash friendly, I do not think so.

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Before the hiring, some of you thought that Holland would not even consider coming here, as some of you put it..."tire fire".   Well Mr Holland looked like he's excited to be here. along with his entire family.....:th_shrug:

 

I hope he starts trimming the dead weight immediately....which is practically half the team imo....

I wonder how long will it take before some here start yelling "OBC"?  And does this mean Mr Holland can't be seen having a cold one with Gretz, Coff, Lowe? which I'm sure he probably knows as acquaintances or even as buddies.   :th_shrug:

 

Anyway, glad to have you on board Mr Holland, Im sure you know your stuff!......I just hope some so call fans here have some patience with you......Good Luck!  😎 

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Coffey2Gretzky said:

Before the hiring, some of you thought that Holland would not even consider coming here, as some of you put it..."tire fire".   Well Mr Holland looked like he's excited to be here. along with his entire family.....:th_shrug:

 

I hope he starts trimming the dead weight immediately....which is practically half the team imo....

I wonder how long will it take before some here start yelling "OBC"?  And does this mean Mr Holland can't be seen having a cold one with Gretz, Coff, Lowe? which I'm sure he probably knows as acquaintances or even as buddies.   :th_shrug:

 

Anyway, glad to have you on board Mr Holland, Im sure you know your stuff!......I just hope some so call fans here have some patience with you......Good Luck!  😎 

 

 

I'll be patient. Not willingly... But I will be. <_<

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Holland has his share of detractors as well, as the Costa rant surely indicates. He goes a little wild but still addresses some valid points IMO , such as Holland's problems dealing with cap issues and NTC contracts....etc

I am hoping for the best here, but the proof will be in the pudding...

 

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40 minutes ago, Coffey2Gretzky said:

Before the hiring, some of you thought that Holland would not even consider coming here, as some of you put it..."tire fire".   Well Mr Holland looked like he's excited to be here. along with his entire family.....:th_shrug:

 

I hope he starts trimming the dead weight immediately....which is practically half the team imo....

I wonder how long will it take before some here start yelling "OBC"?  And does this mean Mr Holland can't be seen having a cold one with Gretz, Coff, Lowe? which I'm sure he probably knows as acquaintances or even as buddies.   :th_shrug:

 

Anyway, glad to have you on board Mr Holland, Im sure you know your stuff!......I just hope some so call fans here have some patience with you......Good Luck!  😎 

I certainly never expected Holland to choose the Oiler gig, but I'm glad to be proven wrong. He's a GM renown for surrounding himself with good people, letting them do their jobs, and taking their advice.

I don't know how much roster turnover there will be, but he has made 68 trades over his career, so he's not afraid to make moves. He's traded with every team in the league except Boston, Colorado, Edmonton, Minnesota & NYI. His most common trade partners are NYR, Arizona, San Jose, Tampa, Nashville, and Calgary. He's not afraid to trade within the division, which opens up some interesting possibilities, especially as Lucic has indicated a preference to play on the West Coast.

Holland has known the OBC since his playing days. He's a grown man, welcome to be friendly with whoever he wants. If people don't like it, don't hang out with him or his friends. Simple as that.

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5 hours ago, WHA fan said:

Since you brought up Kosk, I watched the Dallas game last night. Boy, Bishop was holding a clinic on glove saves. Reminds me how they are supposed to go. Lightning fast and actually catching the puck. 

Bishop was the main reason that game went to OT. He was incredible.


In my previous incarnation here, I was Apples&Hay, with over 10,000 posts...I'm back, baby!

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6 hours ago, Yuke said:

Koskinen is the 4th.

My bet is we wouldn't have those guys without the NMV, NTC

Oh yeah, Kos - good one. I'm sure McDavid and Drai have it too (without checking) but It think it kicks in later in their contracts (so they can't be dumped in their last year or two if they won't sign here). As for them not signing, I don't believe that. I doubt very much Russell would have received a better offer and Koskinen, no way anyone would have signed him for that kind of money after only 30 games or so. Standard practice is if you want a NTC or NMC, then you sign for less - it's the price you pay for 'stability'. If you want max dollar +, then that isn't included. McDavid is an exception, I'd have given him anything he wanted. 

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6 hours ago, OilyJetFan said:

Oh yeah, Kos - good one. I'm sure McDavid and Drai have it too (without checking) but It think it kicks in later in their contracts (so they can't be dumped in their last year or two if they won't sign here). As for them not signing, I don't believe that. I doubt very much Russell would have received a better offer and Koskinen, no way anyone would have signed him for that kind of money after only 30 games or so. Standard practice is if you want a NTC or NMC, then you sign for less - it's the price you pay for 'stability'. If you want max dollar +, then that isn't included. McDavid is an exception, I'd have given him anything he wanted. 

You might be right with Kos. But not sure Russell signs "with the Oilers" for less.

 

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Hoping we'll see Keith Gretzky extended for Holland's term.  Seems like a great situation for mentoring and preparing Keith to take the reins when the time comes.  Oh, and do something serious about the pro scouting side - they should be toe-tagged out of here.

P.S.  Here's a picture you won't want to see....if the Blues win the SC, chances are we'll see Chiarelli in the pics (he's "attached" to the Blues currently).  That would be the Everest of irony!!! 


The Future Ain't What It Used To Be

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14 hours ago, RapierShot said:

Hoping we'll see Keith Gretzky extended for Holland's term.  Seems like a great situation for mentoring and preparing Keith to take the reins when the time comes.  Oh, and do something serious about the pro scouting side - they should be toe-tagged out of here.

P.S.  Here's a picture you won't want to see....if the Blues win the SC, chances are we'll see Chiarelli in the pics (he's "attached" to the Blues currently).  That would be the Everest of irony!!! 

I gotta laugh when I keep seeing posts advocating Kretzky as some sort of prized future GM. Holland has a 5 year deal, what’s to say it won’t be longer? If the team is successful why wouldn’t he continue? He’ll be 68 when the deal expires, Lamoriello is 77 and still going strong. Kretzky has done well as a scout, that’s it. The guy who hired him as assistant GM is Chiarelli, what a genius and judge of personnel he was. Some beautiful trades them two pulled off eh? 

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I will take a wait and see view of this.  Happy it's not KG.  Not convinced Holland isn't an "Old Boy" or that he will do anything to stir the dirty water in Edmonton.

But, as I said, can't evaluate him until he starts doing stuff.  And even then, it'll take a good two years to get a realistic assessment of him.

"Patience" will be the operative word ....... again/still/forever.

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"I'm not a patient man".........."Talk is cheap."Craig MacTavish inauguration 2013

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26 minutes ago, DeutchOil said:

I will take a wait and see view of this.  Happy it's not KG.  Not convinced Holland isn't an "Old Boy" or that he will do anything to stir the dirty water in Edmonton.

But, as I said, can't evaluate him until he starts doing stuff.  And even then, it'll take a good two years to get a realistic assessment of him.

"Patience" will be the operative word ....... again/still/forever.

Yeah but Deutch it doesn't matter who was hired, it's still going to take awhile. PC really screwed us, especially at the end when he traded away both Strome and Caggila for, literally nothing. Luckily, somehow, KG was able to turn Spooner into Gagner, who isn't a great player but he does do some things ok and can at least play in this league. 

Out of all the trades that idiot did, the Caggiula for Manning trade is by far the worst one. TBH, I'm still trying to figure that one out. I really can't understand how anyone would make that deal under any circumstance notwithstanding the history this guy has with McDavid. He (PC) pretty much destroyed his GM career (not that it wasn't already) with that last move. And it was Hitch who was pushing for it. 

I'm actually good with Holland. I like what he said. I like that he admitted right off the hop that he's made mistakes in the past, and will make mistakes in the future. But I also like his plan. He wants a fast team, a transistion team, to match the style that is being played today. 

And one other thing that no one has mentioned yet except for one person (can't remember if it was on TV or radio though TBH) - but who do you think would carry a bigger voice at a GM meeting...................  just putting that out there. I guarantee you that Lou Lam and Holland, when those guys speak at a meeting, everyone shuts up and listens. And these are the guys that make rule changes. 

The more I sleep on this, the more happy I am with this choice. Though I still want to see what our roster looks like come mid-July after the draft and free agency, and what our coaching staff will be comprised of. I'm still hoping like a lot of us for Todd Nelson. He'd be my first choice, but I'm not going to lose my mind if he isn't it... if Dallas Eakins returns I might get upset though ;)

Edited by OilyJetFan

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1 hour ago, OilyJetFan said:

 

Where is the proof that Hitch was the one pulling for Manning.  I asked this from you before.

Please no, "I have insider info" remarks

Eakins totally got screwed by Hall and his "I didn't listen to coaches" attitude. We had a few punks on this team and they cost Eakins a lot of respect

 

 

 

 

Edited by Yuke

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48 minutes ago, Yuke said:

Where is the proof that Hitch was the one pulling for Manning.  I asked this from you before.

Please no, "I have insider info" remarks

Eakins totally got screwed by Hall and his "I didn't listen to coaches" attitude. We had a few punks on this team and they cost Eakins a lot of respect

 

 

 

 

There is so much that goes on behind the scenes that I dislike looking back at past failures and then playing the "blame game'. With the Manning trade, saying that Hitch was pushing for this trade is basically giving Chiarelli a free pass for agreeing to such a bad suggestion. As a GM if you act on every bad suggestion that comes your way you will soon be out of a job. If Chiarelli listened to this suggestion and acted on it, he deserved to lose his job.

It's possible a few bad apples made Eakins look worse than he was, who knows ? I don't, but I didn't like the way Eakins always looked forward without reacting, like a bad imitation of an owl. I want a coach that will talk to his players once in a while giving a pat on the back or trying to teach a new approach without over doing it.

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2 hours ago, Yuke said:

Where is the proof that Hitch was the one pulling for Manning.  I asked this from you before.

Please no, "I have insider info" remarks

Eakins totally got screwed by Hall and his "I didn't listen to coaches" attitude. We had a few punks on this team and they cost Eakins a lot of respect

 

 

 

 

Nope - no insider info. Just listening to podcast, Rishaug on Neiilson's show in the morning. Stauffer has mentioned it on his, and I think I even saw it in print. It was even talked about after Holland's press conference. I haven't spoken with my insider for awhile actually, and TBH, in a few more weeks, I suspect I won't have an insider anymore. 

Don't you listen to Sports talk radio at all? Or read blogs? 

It's actually a well known fact as Hitch himself - in one of his post game conferences too - don't you recall the "Thank God for Peter for bringing in..." I won't use double quotes after that becase after that I don't specifcally remember the wording but it was along the lines of 'bringing in two veterans like Manning and Petrovic'. 

Short memory Yuke, or selective? And yes, Hitch was pushing for help as soon as Klefbom went down, he had also mentioned that, or should I say 'insinuated' it, in his game pressers up to the trade.

The only real 'speculation' was whether or not he asked for Manning by name - some say he did, others say he just asked for a couple more vet dmen. 

But either way, I don't really want him around - at least not where it comes to making player personal decisions, he is the dinosaur here. 

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Messrules.....where in my comments am I advocating Gretzky as "some sort of prized future GM"?  Given that there is an opportunity here for him to learn and grow (courtesy of Holland), why not take advantage of that?  He knows the organization, has experience in the amateur side, so why not grow from there?  That's how GMs are developed. 


The Future Ain't What It Used To Be

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When you know Holland has a 5 year deal and still think 5 years from now that Gretzky will be the next GM, it tells me that you have the blinders on. 

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4 hours ago, OilyJetFan said:

Nope - no insider info. Just listening to podcast, Rishaug on Neiilson's show in the morning. Stauffer has mentioned it on his, and I think I even saw it in print. It was even talked about after Holland's press conference. I haven't spoken with my insider for awhile actually, and TBH, in a few more weeks, I suspect I won't have an insider anymore. 

Don't you listen to Sports talk radio at all? Or read blogs? 

It's actually a well known fact as Hitch himself - in one of his post game conferences too - don't you recall the "Thank God for Peter for bringing in..." I won't use double quotes after that becase after that I don't specifcally remember the wording but it was along the lines of 'bringing in two veterans like Manning and Petrovic'. 

Short memory Yuke, or selective? And yes, Hitch was pushing for help as soon as Klefbom went down, he had also mentioned that, or should I say 'insinuated' it, in his game pressers up to the trade.

The only real 'speculation' was whether or not he asked for Manning by name - some say he did, others say he just asked for a couple more vet dmen. 

But either way, I don't really want him around - at least not where it comes to making player personal decisions, he is the dinosaur here. 

I do not live in Edmonton. I usually use my own judgement since I am not hunting for ratings as most reporters are.

All I have ever heard is Hitch asked for help. Not Manning by name. 

 That along with the known conversation PC had with Connor the year earlier where Peter asked Connor if it was ok to bring in Manning. Hitch was not even with the team then. This leads me to believe Hitch had zero input on who was coming in.

Not sure why all the Manning hate either ( besides he may not be that good). I see little difference between his play on CM and that of Giordano 's. Now there was some chirping later, He was trying to throw the Oilers off their game. Not a chance IMO did he purposely try to injure CM, but he did try and piss off the Oilers and know what, he did. Guys were chasing him all around that game. And like Hendricks when he cheap shot Ekblad (now that was dirty) he manned up and fought . 

Do you like Kassian? Want to talk purpose injury. There is one and do you not see who is his team mate? Kass gets a lot of praise on here.

CM is a big boy now and I am even sure he realizes what Manning was up to and that he actually got hurt on a hockey play.

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7 hours ago, Yuke said:

I do not live in Edmonton. I usually use my own judgement since I am not hunting for ratings as most reporters are.

All I have ever heard is Hitch asked for help. Not Manning by name. 

 That along with the known conversation PC had with Connor the year earlier where Peter asked Connor if it was ok to bring in Manning. Hitch was not even with the team then. This leads me to believe Hitch had zero input on who was coming in.

Not sure why all the Manning hate either ( besides he may not be that good). I see little difference between his play on CM and that of Giordano 's. Now there was some chirping later, He was trying to throw the Oilers off their game. Not a chance IMO did he purposely try to injure CM, but he did try and piss off the Oilers and know what, he did. Guys were chasing him all around that game. And like Hendricks when he cheap shot Ekblad (now that was dirty) he manned up and fought . 

Do you like Kassian? Want to talk purpose injury. There is one and do you not see who is his team mate? Kass gets a lot of praise on here.

CM is a big boy now and I am even sure he realizes what Manning was up to and that he actually got hurt on a hockey play.

Kassian has absolutely nothing to do with this. Here are the facts Yuke:

1. Manning hurt McDavid and yes, he got 'under his skin'\

2. It was TM that told PC if he signed him he wouldn't play, this was why that idiot didn't sign him (at least we had one guy with half a brain on the pro side)

3. When we traded a TOP 9 forward for this clown, who was 3rd or 4th our on team in goals at the time, Manning wasn't even playing, and we were ahead of Chicago in the standings. Manning hadn't played in over a MONTH - not because the coach didn't like him, but because he was no good. In fact Stan Bowman got raked over the coals for signing that jerk in the off season 

This is why I still think this trade is terrible and why I don't like Manning, cause he's useless. The McDavid thing showed his character (remember, Kassian was in a dark place in his life when the Gagner thing happened). We would have been better off keeping and playing Jason Garrison. 

And it was in February when I first heard that it was Hitchcock that was pushing for Manning specifically. One thing I will give you, is that sometimes someone will say something that is wrong, and other people pick up on it and if enough people say it, well it becomes 'fact'.

Oh, one specific place I heard it now that I remember, is on the cult of hockey podcasts with Staples and McCurdy. That was what I was reference re: Ken Holland presser. I was watching their podcast recapping it and they brought it up when they got to Hitchcock not returning as HC, which, trust me,  is a very very good thing. The game has passed Hitch by as he showed in his last year of coaching in Dallas. And like Peter, he believes in big, heavy, slow teams. We have McDavid, he will not thrive on a big, heavy, slow team. You reserve that philosophy to teams that don't have any good players. 

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1 hour ago, OilyJetFan said:

Kassian has absolutely nothing to do with this. Here are the facts Yuke:

1. Manning hurt McDavid and yes, he got 'under his skin'\

2. It was TM that told PC if he signed him he wouldn't play, this was why that idiot didn't sign him (at least we had one guy with half a brain on the pro side)

3. When we traded a TOP 9 forward for this clown, who was 3rd or 4th our on team in goals at the time, Manning wasn't even playing, and we were ahead of Chicago in the standings. Manning hadn't played in over a MONTH - not because the coach didn't like him, but because he was no good. In fact Stan Bowman got raked over the coals for signing that jerk in the off season 

This is why I still think this trade is terrible and why I don't like Manning, cause he's useless. The McDavid thing showed his character (remember, Kassian was in a dark place in his life when the Gagner thing happened). We would have been better off keeping and playing Jason Garrison. 

And it was in February when I first heard that it was Hitchcock that was pushing for Manning specifically. One thing I will give you, is that sometimes someone will say something that is wrong, and other people pick up on it and if enough people say it, well it becomes 'fact'.

Oh, one specific place I heard it now that I remember, is on the cult of hockey podcasts with Staples and McCurdy. That was what I was reference re: Ken Holland presser. I was watching their podcast recapping it and they brought it up when they got to Hitchcock not returning as HC, which, trust me,  is a very very good thing. The game has passed Hitch by as he showed in his last year of coaching in Dallas. And like Peter, he believes in big, heavy, slow teams. We have McDavid, he will not thrive on a big, heavy, slow team. You reserve that philosophy to teams that don't have any good players. 

Kassian, no matter what world he was in delivered an intentional wicked slash/highstick. But, given a chance he has become a fan favorite (mine too).

I still don't understand your hate on Manning himself. You have explained the very poor transaction. But how was that Mannings fault. It isn't like Manning put a gun to PCs head and said trade for me and make sure it is for Connors buddy (a 3-4 th liner on most teams, 2nd line filler & I too hate the trade). Your hate energy should be put on PC and KG, not Manning.

Mind you, everyone has their own person to hate. Myself, I think Jason Smith was a horrible captain. He was just as much to blame for the Canes goal (2006 SC finals) in game one but let Conklin take the whole blame. How a captain, never mind a team mate does that. Jerk move.

Hitch, he believes in big defensive teams, pretty sure every coach in the league would prefer fast over slow though.

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Speaking of blinders, Mess.....you know that the last 2 GMs here didn't finish out their contract terms?  So anything is possible regardless of the contract.

I'm hoping that Holland is wildly successful and is GM for at least the 5 years...but I don't regard that as a guarantee.


The Future Ain't What It Used To Be

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Honestly I love this hiring. 

Holland brings some respectability back to the Oilers when before we had absolutely none. The days of GM's salivating at the thought of ripping us off should be long gone. He has friends around the league and connections. He believes in growing talent and not dropping 12 million on the free agency market. He said the path should be to the Condors and then to the NHL. He knows players like JP need confidence and can't be rushed.

Reading through Red wing forums it seems very apparent that Holland is all about the grind. He is always working. Hell his 2nd day here he flew out to Bakersfield. I remember reading a story about the wings winning one of their various cups and the next day after the parade he was found starting his work on the draft. This guys dedication is 2nd to none. He is already moving out here with his family which shows some dedication and commitment to the city. Cough *Chia* Cough. According to red wing fans he has already been working tirelessly on this years draft. 

Also Holland has some pull. He has a HOF resume for Gods sake. I truly believe there will be some changes in the office in the next couple of months. I understand why nothing was done immediately because of the draft coming up and free agency. Do you think a brand new head GM like Hunter, Burke or to some extent McCrimmon would have the stones to go against the OBC and turf guys like Howson, Schwartz, or someone like Paul Messier? I am not saying they are 100% gone but if someone is going to do it.. it is Holland

Hopefully this is the end of the OBC putting their stinky fingers in the pie, terrible pro scouting and rushing young players. Good luck Mr.Holland you are going to need it. 

Edited by TeamEllis

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6 hours ago, Yuke said:

Kassian, no matter what world he was in delivered an intentional wicked slash/highstick. But, given a chance he has become a fan favorite (mine too).

I still don't understand your hate on Manning himself. You have explained the very poor transaction. But how was that Mannings fault. It isn't like Manning put a gun to PCs head and said trade for me and make sure it is for Connors buddy (a 3-4 th liner on most teams, 2nd line filler & I too hate the trade). Your hate energy should be put on PC and KG, not Manning.

Mind you, everyone has their own person to hate. Myself, I think Jason Smith was a horrible captain. He was just as much to blame for the Canes goal (2006 SC finals) in game one but let Conklin take the whole blame. How a captain, never mind a team mate does that. Jerk move.

Hitch, he believes in big defensive teams, pretty sure every coach in the league would prefer fast over slow though.

I guess, lets just say I can't stand border line players trying to make a name for themselves by taking out a star player. You're right in that he answered the bell, etc etc but I still don't like him as a person, or as a hockey player. I guess, the best way to say it, is when I played, I played hard and I played as fair as good but 'stuff' happened. When I injured someone, I never gloated about it, I never egged the guy on afterwards, I felt genuinely bad about it. Didn't stop me from playing hard, but I never, ever did anything to intentionally hurt anyone. 
Manning had zero remorse about, the gloated about it and as I understand he never even sent a note off too him apologizing or checking in to see how he was. In the old days, players used to drop by the hospital or at least phone them to say "hey, sorry about that hope for speed recovery" or something along those lines.

Manning never did any of that and just dissed him more. 

I don't think Kassian did either btw - but he's a different cat now, he was in a dark place. I think Manning is what he is. I don't think he has a lot of 'friends', or respect, amongst his peers.

And yes, if had the decency to txt McDavid after to apologize and wish him well, that would have gone a long way in my books. So that's the personal part. 

Regardless of McDavid, I never, ever, would have done that trade. I'm still not happy with the high 3rd round pick for Petrovic either. But at least that I can live with. The day Manning is no longer an Oiler, i'll have a drink to celebrate. And I really hope they send him to a team in Alaska this year. No buy out - it's not worth it. 

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On 5/8/2019 at 10:25 AM, IGibb said:

Yet he gave up 10 goals in the series over his blocker side shoulder. 

Right. I mentioned his glove hand. The catching one. 

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7 hours ago, WHA fan said:

Right. I mentioned his glove hand. The catching one. 

My point is he still had a exploitable weakness to his game. Like almost all goalies have.

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