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4 minutes ago, DeutchOil said:

Lucic is immobile, not because of his training regimen .... it's because his BODY is done and on decline.  He uses boxing, because it has an ability to reverse aging to some degree, in a way that is less damaging to his body, less brutal, better likelihood of NOT accelerating the decline, than being on skates

It appears to me that Lucic has a body type that needs an off-season workout routine that emphasizes loosening the body.

I guarantee a good power skating coach, along with intense yoga and/or pilates training would do him a world of good. 

But, he has a guaranteed contract that sets him up for life, so what's the point of really trying to turn his game around?

 

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the guy does not want to be in edmonton, its soured on him. he already did an off season where he lost weight and worked on his skating it didnt work.

hes on the decline, he should be getting 12 points next season in total if his decline pattern continues.  He's owed  24 million for the next 4 years. and i dont think he cares anymore if hes getting worse or better or how hes training. the game has changed and he didnt change his game, but he did train too. how hard i dont know? but this guy is a lost cause yoga wont make him faster or have better stamina or have hockey smarts. yoga is for women trying to get fit. Pilates in a form may help, but  i think thats what he was trying to do  with boxing workouts, they do improve strength, agility, stamina, core  and hand eye. but none of these are his main problem, its his hockey sense and wanting to be here. we cant change where he wants to be or make the guy smarter. sorry but this guy is our new Benoit Pouliot which sucks to say outloud

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1 hour ago, arturo said:

"the guy does not want to be in edmonton, its soured on him."

Can you blame him?.... with fans that turn on players, and make life miserable for them and their families rather than focusing that negativity where it belongs on the decision making front office and the organization as a whole.

Edmonton, due to its lack of success, has become a horrible place to be an NHL hockey  fan.  But the fans need to wisen up, and stop making it worse.

Lucic works hard.  Tries hard.  Plays as hard as his body allows.  That much is OBVIOUS, to anyone who actually looks.  His difficulties are in that his body doesn't want to perform like it did when it was 22-25 years old.  Peter Chiarelli knew that when he signed Milan, and decided it would be okay.  Milan might not have known it when he signed, we all like to believe we are immune to getting older.


"I'm not a patient man".........."Talk is cheap."Craig MacTavish inauguration 2013

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2 hours ago, oilersfaninca said:

It appears to me that Lucic has a body type that needs an off-season workout routine that emphasizes loosening the body.

I guarantee a good power skating coach, along with intense yoga and/or pilates training would do him a world of good. 

But, he has a guaranteed contract that sets him up for life, so what's the point of really trying to turn his game around?

 

At Milan's age, his skating is set.

What he is doing, as a workout regimen, Off Ice, is actually the BEST he can do.  Cramming your feet into skates and skating is actually quite bad for feet and ankles, and the resultant wear and tear of doing it reduces mobility dramatically .... especially for those with larger, more heavy, bodies (the 120 lb whipsters like Teemu Selanne, don't experience the same wear and tear).

These things are actually quite logical, and well documented. 


"I'm not a patient man".........."Talk is cheap."Craig MacTavish inauguration 2013

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2 minutes ago, DeutchOil said:

These things are actually quite logical, and well documented. 

Well documented?  Show me where there is evidence that skating reduces mobility dramatically.

If the skates are properly fitted, feet and ankles will be just fine.  

I do agree that at his age, he is not going to make dramatic changes in his skating or game but there are things he can do in his off-season training.   Maybe the improvements would be subtle, but enough subtle improvements might add up to something.

Obviously what he IS doing ain't amounting to @##$, so it might time to try something else.

But then again, he's got another $24 million coming if he continues the same path (or does nothing at all) in the offseason.

PS.  Selanne is listed at 6 feet, 196 pounds.  But  your point is understood.

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26 minutes ago, DeutchOil said:

Lucic works hard.  Tries hard.  Plays as hard as his body allows.  That much is OBVIOUS, to anyone who actually looks.

Seemed pretty obvious that Looch avoided a large percentage of scrums last year as he muttered to himself gong to the bench.

What were you watching?

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Lucic has played 12 years now, 12 years of rough hockey. For those expecting him to be some big point getter are way off. He had his worst point season of 20 points, conversely Reaves had his best ever points season at 20 points. Lucic makes twice as much but you can blame Chiarelli for that, not Lucic. Reaves is likely the toughest guy in the league and I’d put Lucic and Chara in the top 3, yet for some reason Oilers fans think he should be a point producer. After 12 years of tough hockey his skills are going to decline. Chara’s have too, deal with it.

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1 minute ago, Messrules11 said:

Lucic has played 12 years now, 12 years of rough hockey. For those expecting him to be some big point getter are way off.

Who is saying he's going to be a different player all of a sudden?

It's possible with hard work and determination that he could improve or at LEAST stop receding.

Reality is that he's going to milk this contract because there is NO incentive for Looch (or any other NHL player with a fat long term deal) to put in the blood, sweat and tears that it would take...

 

 

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3 minutes ago, oilersfaninca said:

Who is saying he's going to be a different player all of a sudden?

It's possible with hard work and determination that he could improve or at LEAST stop receding.

Reality is that he's going to milk this contract because there is NO incentive for Looch (or any other NHL player with a fat long term deal) to put in the blood, sweat and tears that it would take...

 

 

I don’t agree. Pride and being a professional in the public eye still has meaning to most athletes.

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6 hours ago, oilersfaninca said:

20 pts.

Fitness level and skill level are two different aspects of a players game. 

Edited by bronco73

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Huge Thank-You to UnrefinedCrude for this awesome signature!

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50 minutes ago, bronco73 said:

Fitness level and skill level are two different aspects of a players game. 

True.  But one without the other doesn't make a good NHLer.  

I am not talking so much about fitness as mobility, which is soooo underrated.   Flexibility and range of motion equates to power and balance.   Not to mention it makes injury much less likely.   Just think if alligator arms Looch was able to stretch another few inches and capture some of the passes that now are juuuuust out of his reach and go for icing or get turned over. Or if he picked up a half a step of speed and was able to get into the forecheck and hit the guy WITH the puck as opposed to right after he passes it?  

These things are subtle changes that would make him more effective even at the ripe age of 32?  Is he 32?  

I just don't see how boxing is going to help, espcially with last year's debacle.

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18 minutes ago, oilersfaninca said:

True.  But one without the other doesn't make a good NHLer.  

I am not talking so much about fitness as mobility, which is soooo underrated.   Flexibility and range of motion equates to power and balance.   Not to mention it makes injury much less likely.   Just think if alligator arms Looch was able to stretch another few inches and capture some of the passes that now are juuuuust out of his reach and go for icing or get turned over. Or if he picked up a half a step of speed and was able to get into the forecheck and hit the guy WITH the puck as opposed to right after he passes it?  

These things are subtle changes that would make him more effective even at the ripe age of 32?  Is he 32?  

I just don't see how boxing is going to help, espcially with last year's debacle.

We can debate Lucic's future all we want, it's what Holland thinks of Lucic which will dictate what approach we take with Lucic and his contract. Holland most likely already has a good idea how he will handle the situation. It probably depends partly on Lucic's off season fitness level and also what plays out in the rest of the league as far as cap hit and team needs for all the parties involved. We will soon find out at the draft or if not it could be as late as training camp. One way or another before the season starts Holland will have made his mind up and probably will give us at least a little insight of his intentions. 

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On 5/29/2019 at 11:09 PM, WHA fan said:

Looch for Erikson would make me puke! Seriously WTF is the point of that? Keep Looch around, see if he wants to play, because that's all it will take to have a contribution. If there is a real trade, then take it, but this idea just means we get an older bag of pucks that can't even stand up for anything. I guarantee Erikson would do jack squat for us. 

Perhaps Erickson's contract is shorter term, and therein may be a silver lining, but that's all I can think of.

I say Looch contributes next year. (the guy should be working with the same figure skating coaches that Semenko did to smooth out his stride, over the summer.)

I agree, I am looking for more upside in Milan Lucic's game next season.

With Milan Lucic we don't have a player problem, what we have is a contract problem, nothing wrong with the player in my mind, we are just paying him way too much, but at the time we signed him, we were competing against other NHL clubs, and Milan chose Edmonton.    At the time it looked good, we lost Hall (bad influence in the dressing room by all accounts and handled himself very unprofessionally off the ice and I am speaking from personal experience here) but gained Lucic (we needed a tough guy) and Larsson ( we needed a solid stay at home defenceman).

I remember Dougie Weight going through some tough times without much physical help, and I also recall the likes of Hall Eberly and RNH being the recipients of some physical abuse also...………..all forgotten apparently...……...as I say, nothing wrong with Milan Lucic, only his contract, and that is not his fault.      Apart from freak incidents on the ice, McDavid and Draisaitl and RNH don't really have to deal with much crap from opposing teams.   Whether that is down to Lucic or not, who knows?    But having him even for that purpose only isn't a bad thing.

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1 hour ago, mrtea said:

We can debate Lucic's future all we want, it's what Holland thinks of Lucic which will dictate what approach we take with Lucic and his contract. Holland most likely already has a good idea how he will handle the situation. It probably depends partly on Lucic's off season fitness level and also what plays out in the rest of the league as far as cap hit and team needs for all the parties involved. We will soon find out at the draft or if not it could be as late as training camp. One way or another before the season starts Holland will have made his mind up and probably will give us at least a little insight of his intentions. 

Holland would love to get rid of him and his albatross contract but can he? Buying him out would provide little relief unfortunately. I just can't see it happening, we are stuck with for a while yet I think.

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2 hours ago, oilersfaninca said:

True.  But one without the other doesn't make a good NHLer.  

I am not talking so much about fitness as mobility, which is soooo underrated.   Flexibility and range of motion equates to power and balance.   Not to mention it makes injury much less likely.   Just think if alligator arms Looch was able to stretch another few inches and capture some of the passes that now are juuuuust out of his reach and go for icing or get turned over. Or if he picked up a half a step of speed and was able to get into the forecheck and hit the guy WITH the puck as opposed to right after he passes it?  

These things are subtle changes that would make him more effective even at the ripe age of 32?  Is he 32?  

I just don't see how boxing is going to help, espcially with last year's debacle.

You clearly have never ever done a boxing workout and know almost nothing about it.

For a very, very narrow reference watch Rocky .... not the boxing bits, but the parts about working out. ..... then think 10 times harder than that.  Very little time is spent hitting things with hands ......... almost none.


"I'm not a patient man".........."Talk is cheap."Craig MacTavish inauguration 2013

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The virtue of boxing training isn't in question - yes, it has a lot of physical / mobility benefits.  However, for a hockey player, skating is the key factor to success.  Now, given that Lucic - or any other player for that matter - is not going to spend countless hours training in the off season (especially a family man), what's the best approach for that player to follow?  Where's the focus? 

Lucic is 30 years old - hardly too old to take on some skating training, especially with a skating coach.  It's about edge work, controlling turns, and take-offs and not about bag skating for 8 hours a day.  

 


The Future Ain't What It Used To Be

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I honestly don’t see Lucic’s skating as his worst flaw, I’ve seen him back check harder than Nuge countless times yet no one complains about Nuge’s speed. Lucic’s biggest problem is his hands, he can’t receive or make a pass worth a crap. He stands by the net trying to deflect pucks and he can’t make contact. He misses the net way too often and makes me think his eyes are really the problem.

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4 hours ago, Blackhawk216 said:

I agree, I am looking for more upside in Milan Lucic's game next season.

With Milan Lucic we don't have a player problem, what we have is a contract problem, nothing wrong with the player in my mind, we are just paying him way too much, but at the time we signed him, we were competing against other NHL clubs, and Milan chose Edmonton.    At the time it looked good, we lost Hall (bad influence in the dressing room by all accounts and handled himself very unprofessionally off the ice and I am speaking from personal experience here) but gained Lucic (we needed a tough guy) and Larsson ( we needed a solid stay at home defenceman).

I remember Dougie Weight going through some tough times without much physical help, and I also recall the likes of Hall Eberly and RNH being the recipients of some physical abuse also...………..all forgotten apparently...……...as I say, nothing wrong with Milan Lucic, only his contract, and that is not his fault.      Apart from freak incidents on the ice, McDavid and Draisaitl and RNH don't really have to deal with much crap from opposing teams.   Whether that is down to Lucic or not, who knows?    But having him even for that purpose only isn't a bad thing.

Yup, we were marshmallows in the Hall, eberle days....not necessarily only because of them, but man we were rolled over by other teams. 

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I think it was on Lucic's exit interview where Milan discussed his plan for training this summer. Usually he concentrates on dry land fitness but he sees most guys are now taking only a few weeks off then back on the ice. He planned on being on the ice more this summer. 

I say "planned" because who knows how his ankle is doing. 

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11 hours ago, RapierShot said:

The virtue of boxing training isn't in question - yes, it has a lot of physical / mobility benefits.  However, for a hockey player, skating is the key factor to success.  Now, given that Lucic - or any other player for that matter - is not going to spend countless hours training in the off season (especially a family man), what's the best approach for that player to follow?  Where's the focus? 

Lucic is 30 years old - hardly too old to take on some skating training, especially with a skating coach.  It's about edge work, controlling turns, and take-offs and not about bag skating for 8 hours a day.  

 

Lucic is a fitness addict ... he has been his whole life.  He has been on skates more in his 30 years than 99% of Canada is in a life time.  He doesn't need more time on skates to become a better skater .... that IS set.  It is SET from the time he hits 21-22.  

Bodies age at different paces ... being 30 or 28 or 42 has NOTHING to do with how  one person ages vs. another.

Lucic's body has aged far faster than most (likely due to the extreme amounts of training he has done, the wear and tear of playing professional sports, playing a very, VERY physical game from day one of his hockey playing life, and the sheer size of his frame).  You can see it clearly.

Whatever off season workout regimen Milan Lucic has chosen for himself, will have come from immense amounts of consultation from EXPERTS in the field and highly touted professional athlete coaches.  For any of us to question, or malign, or criticize his choices goes beyond the asinine into the moronic.  He has about 0.01% body fat.  When you achieve that for yourself ... then you might be able to give him advice.

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"I'm not a patient man".........."Talk is cheap."Craig MacTavish inauguration 2013

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11 hours ago, Messrules11 said:

I honestly don’t see Lucic’s skating as his worst flaw, I’ve seen him back check harder than Nuge countless times yet no one complains about Nuge’s speed. Lucic’s biggest problem is his hands, he can’t receive or make a pass worth a crap. He stands by the net trying to deflect pucks and he can’t make contact. He misses the net way too often and makes me think his eyes are really the problem.

You seem to key in on Nuge all the time, get some new material.

 

Lucic is one of the hardest back checkers in the league because he has to be, he has NHL speed at top speed but it takes him(much like most bigger bodies) more strides to get up to that speed.I don't think anyone really questions the work ethic of Lucic, his skill level has dropped off a cliff though.


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15 hours ago, DeutchOil said:

You clearly have never ever done a boxing workout and know almost nothing about it.

 

OK, boxing is great off-season workout for hockey players.  Just look at the results for Milan Lucic....

Still waiting for the evidence that skating is detrimental to mobility.

You did state that?  Or am I mis-reading your post?

3 hours ago, DeutchOil said:

Lucic is a fitness addict ... he has been his whole life.  He has been on skates more in his 30 years than 99% of Canada is in a life time.  He doesn't need more time on skates to become a better skater .... that IS set.  It is SET from the time he hits 21-22.  

Bodies age at different paces ... being 30 or 28 or 42 has NOTHING to do with how  one person ages vs. another.

Lucic's body has aged far faster than most (likely due to the extreme amounts of training he has done, the wear and tear of playing professional sports, playing a very, VERY physical game from day one of his hockey playing life, and the sheer size of his frame).  You can see it clearly.

Whatever off season workout regimen Milan Lucic has chosen for himself, will have come from immense amounts of consultation from EXPERTS in the field and highly touted professional athlete coaches.  For any of us to question, or malign, or criticize his choices goes beyond the asinine into the moronic.  He has about 0.01% body fat.  When you achieve that for yourself ... then you might be able to give him advice.

Like Rapier said.  ALL hockey players could work on their edges, including Looch and even gasp COnnor McDavid.  Edgework IS skating.  It's ludicrous to say that Looch doesn't need to work on his skating or everything is already set by the early 20s.   You can't really believe this?

What's moronic is stating that the off-season training regimen of a player with obvious physical limitations  and coming off a 20 point season is beyond criticism.  

Perhaps Looch appears to be aging faster BECAUSE HE OFF SEASON TRAINING IS WRONG!  Did that ever occur to you?

BTW.  .01% body fat is impossible and body fat is an awful metric for "hockey shape" anyway.   

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2 hours ago, oilersfaninca said:

OK, boxing is great off-season workout for hockey players.  Just look at the results for Milan Lucic....

Still waiting for the evidence that skating is detrimental to mobility.

You did state that?  Or am I mis-reading your post?

Like Rapier said.  ALL hockey players could work on their edges, including Looch and even gasp COnnor McDavid.  Edgework IS skating.  It's ludicrous to say that Looch doesn't need to work on his skating or everything is already set by the early 20s.   You can't really believe this?

What's moronic is stating that the off-season training regimen of a player with obvious physical limitations  and coming off a 20 point season is beyond criticism.  

Perhaps Looch appears to be aging faster BECAUSE HE OFF SEASON TRAINING IS WRONG!  Did that ever occur to you?

BTW.  .01% body fat is impossible and body fat is an awful metric for "hockey shape" anyway.   

Read a few Biographies of retired professional Hockey players.  By far the majority of them complain of intense foot and ankle pain for the rest of their lives (not to mention knees and hips).  

It's called wear and tear for a reason.


"I'm not a patient man".........."Talk is cheap."Craig MacTavish inauguration 2013

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Ken Holland must not have liked what he heard from Yawney and Viveiros very much during the talk he had with them, considering how they are now looking for new employment. When originally asked about the future of the assistant coaching staff Holland stated he wanted to talk to them first.

I like Holland's approach to things so far, he's calm, he's deliberate , he is getting things done, but at his own pace.....no need to rush important decisions. I always watch the rookie draft and this one looks as good as any to watch. 

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On 5/31/2019 at 2:18 PM, DeutchOil said:

Can you blame him?.... with fans that turn on players, and make life miserable for them and their families rather than focusing that negativity where it belongs on the decision making front office and the organization as a whole.

Edmonton, due to its lack of success, has become a horrible place to be an NHL hockey  fan.  But the fans need to wisen up, and stop making it worse.

Lucic works hard.  Tries hard.  Plays as hard as his body allows.  That much is OBVIOUS, to anyone who actually looks.  His difficulties are in that his body doesn't want to perform like it did when it was 22-25 years old.  Peter Chiarelli knew that when he signed Milan, and decided it would be okay.  Milan might not have known it when he signed, we all like to believe we are immune to getting older.

dont blame him at all. we are in a hockey crazy city. you gotta put up especially when you are getting paid. and hes on the decline, was even before he got here, and yeah i agree with you i blame PC. lucic is just never going to be that guy as does not have the hockey smarts to change his game to work for his skill level.

 

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9 hours ago, oilersfaninca said:

OK, boxing is great off-season workout for hockey players.  Just look at the results for Milan Lucic....

Still waiting for the evidence that skating is detrimental to mobility.

You did state that?  Or am I mis-reading your post?

Like Rapier said.  ALL hockey players could work on their edges, including Looch and even gasp COnnor McDavid.  Edgework IS skating.  It's ludicrous to say that Looch doesn't need to work on his skating or everything is already set by the early 20s.   You can't really believe this?

What's moronic is stating that the off-season training regimen of a player with obvious physical limitations  and coming off a 20 point season is beyond criticism.  

Perhaps Looch appears to be aging faster BECAUSE HE OFF SEASON TRAINING IS WRONG!  Did that ever occur to you?

BTW.  .01% body fat is impossible and body fat is an awful metric for "hockey shape" anyway.   

games got faster and smarter, the guys hockey IQ is just nor up to par. he could be in the best shape and a great skater, have a look at spooner(who we had), very good skater but no hockey IQ.

lucic use to get by as a power forward, hit, fight and bully his way to the net. its just not his era anymore. guys like him are not successful anymore. hes on pace for 12 point next season. his training is irrelevant, as is his body fat who cares.

look at a guy like sam gagner( nearly same age, 1 year diff), not fast or a great skater and hes small as well. in 32 games he put 13 points, on pace for 33 points if he played all 82 games. why? because of his hockey sense. lucic has none

 

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Now ... to prepare myself for a season of the new GM "evaluating" the team, with the first real building being done around mid to late season (like when Pat Maroon was acquired last time).  Then a lot of moves next summer (2020).

Back to the wait and be patient game.

Edited by DeutchOil

"I'm not a patient man".........."Talk is cheap."Craig MacTavish inauguration 2013

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10 hours ago, DeutchOil said:

Now ... to prepare myself for a season of the new GM "evaluating" the team, with the first real building being done around mid to late season (like when Pat Maroon was acquired last time).  Then a lot of moves next summer (2020).

Back to the wait and be patient game.

I think we see more changes, sooner. I think Holland wants to make something happen and, with a little luck I think it's remotely possible to improve this team next year into an a playoff team. This year's sideshow was still making a run in Mid March. I always have to be a glass half full guy on this team, otherwise what's the point? (though I did almost give that up last year, for the first time in decades.) Just my 2 cents.

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22 hours ago, WHA fan said:

I think we see more changes, sooner. I think Holland wants to make something happen and, with a little luck I think it's remotely possible to improve this team next year into an a playoff team. This year's sideshow was still making a run in Mid March. I always have to be a glass half full guy on this team, otherwise what's the point? (though I did almost give that up last year, for the first time in decades.) Just my 2 cents.

I'm more of a realist in regards to that "run in Mid March" ..... at only a game over .500, the Oilers best hockey of the year, was never a real run (finishing further out of the playoffs than when the run began) ...... and all of that against the lowest playoff cutoff since the 200? lock out (for most of the season it was looking to be about 84 points ... and the Oilers didn't even get that much).

So ... I see your optimism with a grain of salt ...... okay more like a lake of salt.  But we are looking to be heading in the right direction with all the turn over at the top.


"I'm not a patient man".........."Talk is cheap."Craig MacTavish inauguration 2013

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56 minutes ago, DeutchOil said:

I'm more of a realist in regards to that "run in Mid March" ..... at only a game over .500, the Oilers best hockey of the year, was never a real run (finishing further out of the playoffs than when the run began) ...... and all of that against the lowest playoff cutoff since the 200? lock out (for most of the season it was looking to be about 84 points ... and the Oilers didn't even get that much).

So ... I see your optimism with a grain of salt ...... okay more like a lake of salt.  But we are looking to be heading in the right direction with all the turn over at the top.

I get it, and you are probably correct. However, like I said, if I don't see the positive potential I would probably stop watching. It's pretty much the only sports I watch with consistency. My son and I attend to Victoria Royals games/month usually. I'm watching the NBA finals now; good story, good basketball. I'll watch Euro cup, and World cup soccer and that's about it. I don't even watch the Superbowl, or Masters unless I have nothing to do, which is never, so if I'm going to "cheer" for this team, I have to approach it with some hope. This is why the way this team has been going was a challenge to that view; a real disappointment as though the organization wasn't worth watching. I'll never say 'depressing', cause that would be place actual importance on the thing but it's fun and it's a distraction. I watch because I hope for a win. If I can't hope, then I won't watch.

(also, I think there is a slim possibility that I'm correct on the chances for improvement ;) )

cheers.

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