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minor rebuild?? That's the hell we were in for so long.

They won't get great draft picks (and they've sent so many picks away anyways. Come to think of it they've traded prospects away too. why did they throw Keith Aulie in that phaneuf deal? That had me floored)

They won't attract free agents as easily as they did as a divisional champion.

Their GM won't have the freedom to do what he wants. The fanbase will be too critical

They won't make the playoffs.

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The same thing happened to me on the Flamer website. You can't say anything negative on there or you will get deleted. I mention on there that J-Bow is a terrible signing. For 6.7 Mil he is not earning his pay. Ryan Whitney is 4.0 Mil and having a better season. It was easy to look good in Florida, now in Maple Leaf West its more difficult to hide.  

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The same thing happened to me on the Flamer website. You can't say anything negative on there or you will get deleted. I mention on there that J-Bow is a terrible signing. For 6.7 Mil he is not earning his pay. Ryan Whitney is 4.0 Mil and having a better season. It was easy to look good in Florida, now in Maple Leaf West its more difficult to hide.  

lol, you have obviously missed the  irony of your statement but one could say it was reeeeaaal easy to look good in Pittsburgh as well. How easy will it be to hide on a team that is worse than the Maple leafs east?   

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[quote name='Jacky7 wrote:


Oilerforlife']The same thing happened to me on the Flamer website. You can't say anything negative on there or you will get deleted. I mention on there that J-Bow is a terrible signing. For 6.7 Mil he is not earning his pay. Ryan Whitney is 4.0 Mil and having a better season. It was easy to look good in Florida, now in Maple Leaf West its more difficult to hide.  

lol, you have obviously missed the  irony of your statement but one could say it was reeeeaaal easy to look good in Pittsburgh as well. How easy will it be to hide on a team that is worse than the Maple leafs east?   

Jacky7 you miss the point COMPLETELY. We are on a rebuild and you are not. Whitney will grow with the youth movement and will be given the chance to be a leader. If he fulfills his talents he will be our leader on our blueline. Also we get to keep him 2 years into his UFA years , so this contract is good one. 6.7 versus 4.0 for the same type of player.

  

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[quote name='Oilerforlife wrote:


Jacky7 wrote:

Oilerforlife']The same thing happened to me on the Flamer website. You can't say anything negative on there or you will get deleted. I mention on there that J-Bow is a terrible signing. For 6.7 Mil he is not earning his pay. Ryan Whitney is 4.0 Mil and having a better season. It was easy to look good in Florida, now in Maple Leaf West its more difficult to hide.  

lol, you have obviously missed the  irony of your statement but one could say it was reeeeaaal easy to look good in Pittsburgh as well. How easy will it be to hide on a team that is worse than the Maple leafs east?   

Jacky7 you miss the point COMPLETELY. We are on a rebuild and you are not. Whitney will grow with the youth movement and will be given the chance to be a leader. If he fulfills his talents he will be our leader on our blueline. Also we get to keep him 2 years into his UFA years , so this contract is good one. 6.7 versus 4.0 for the same type of player.

  Reading directly from you first post,your point was  that JBO is a terrible signing. Apparently it was easy to look good in florida and when thrust into the kitchen that is the NW division he is struggling(just assuming your point matched the actual wording of your post).JBOs offensive numbers arent as good as hoped but he play 25-28 minutes a game against the best the other team has to offer ( and is still plus 8).He will play all 82 games this year ( believe he is the current iron man in the league) and was the final cut on team canada. If he starts to put up a few more points Im very happy with his play this year.

 Again, the irony obviously flew way over your head as whitneys best years were with the most talented offensive team in the league (may 2nd behind the caps).Was easy to score 50 points in Pitt. and finish with a good plus/minus. How many points do you think he gets next year and what do you think his plus/minus looks like.  Is he going to earn his 4.1 next year when he is playing way more minutes than he is capable of on one of the worst teams (offensively and defensivley) in the entire league?  If it was hard for JBO to hide his apparent deficiencies (still not sure what they may be) in calgary, how well does whitney hide his downsides in edmonton?

ps. only on this board are whitney and JBO the same type of playerrolleyes.gif

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[quote name='Jacky7 wrote:


Oilerforlife wrote:

Jacky7']

lol, you have obviously missed the  irony of your statement but one could say it was reeeeaaal easy to look good in Pittsburgh as well. How easy will it be to hide on a team that is worse than the Maple leafs east?   

Jacky7 you miss the point COMPLETELY. We are on a rebuild and you are not. Whitney will grow with the youth movement and will be given the chance to be a leader. If he fulfills his talents he will be our leader on our blueline. Also we get to keep him 2 years into his UFA years , so this contract is good one. 6.7 versus 4.0 for the same type of player.

  
Reading directly from you first post,your point was  that JBO is a terrible signing. Apparently it was easy to look good in florida and when thrust into the kitchen that is the NW division he is struggling(just assuming your point matched the actual wording of your post).JBOs offensive numbers arent as good as hoped but he play 25-28 minutes a game against the best the other team has to offer ( and is still plus 8).He will play all 82 games this year ( believe he is the current iron man in the league) and was the final cut on team canada. If he starts to put up a few more points Im very happy with his play this year.

 Again, the irony obviously flew way over your head as whitneys best years were with the most talented offensive team in the league (may 2nd behind the caps).Was easy to score 50 points in Pitt. and finish with a good plus/minus. How many points do you think he gets next year and what do you think his plus/minus looks like.  Is he going to earn his 4.1 next year when he is playing way more minutes than he is capable of on one of the worst teams (offensively and defensivley) in the entire league?  If it was hard for JBO to hide his apparent deficiencies (still not sure what they may be) in calgary, how well does whitney hide his downsides in edmonton?

ps. only on this board are whitney and JBO the same type of playerrolleyes.gifNot to get in between you two but I find this discussion particularly interesting. I happen to be a Panthers fan so I watched JBo for many years on a relatively poor Florida team. Is he a good player? Sure. Is he worth one of the higher defenseman contracts in the league? Absolutely not. Yes Whitney and JBo are the same type of player whether you like it or not. Both players are big bodies on the back end relied upon for the transition pass and QBing the powerplay. They're both expected to put up numbers. They're both top 3 Dmen. Is JBo a better version of Whitney? Sure. But is he a different type of player? Not really.

Whitney underperformed in Anaheim because of the system there more than anything else. Couple that with the fact that he's had to play behind the likes of Neidermeyer, Pronger, and Beauchemin and you realize he may not have had the chance to develop his game. All three players aforementioned are strong offensive players, and as such, Whitney's role was considerably restrained. He was asked to play a type of hockey he wasn't comfortable with.

Though I respect Flames fans, I really disagree with the way they've look down on the Oilers for the past 3 years. What more in that time frame have the Flames accomplished that we missed the playoffs? That's right, three straight early playoff exits. But don't fret Calgary, your fall is coming. Iginla and Kipper aren't young bucks anymore. The prospect pantry is getting dry. Perhaps we'll have a roommate in the basement before long.... 

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[quote name='Darocka wrote:


Jacky7 wrote:

Oilerforlife']

Jacky7 you miss the point COMPLETELY. We are on a rebuild and you are not. Whitney will grow with the youth movement and will be given the chance to be a leader. If he fulfills his talents he will be our leader on our blueline. Also we get to keep him 2 years into his UFA years , so this contract is good one. 6.7 versus 4.0 for the same type of player.

  

Reading directly from you first post,your point was  that JBO is a terrible signing. Apparently it was easy to look good in florida and when thrust into the kitchen that is the NW division he is struggling(just assuming your point matched the actual wording of your post).JBOs offensive numbers arent as good as hoped but he play 25-28 minutes a game against the best the other team has to offer ( and is still plus 8).He will play all 82 games this year ( believe he is the current iron man in the league) and was the final cut on team canada. If he starts to put up a few more points Im very happy with his play this year.

 Again, the irony obviously flew way over your head as whitneys best years were with the most talented offensive team in the league (may 2nd behind the caps).Was easy to score 50 points in Pitt. and finish with a good plus/minus. How many points do you think he gets next year and what do you think his plus/minus looks like.  Is he going to earn his 4.1 next year when he is playing way more minutes than he is capable of on one of the worst teams (offensively and defensivley) in the entire league?  If it was hard for JBO to hide his apparent deficiencies (still not sure what they may be) in calgary, how well does whitney hide his downsides in edmonton?

ps. only on this board are whitney and JBO the same type of player
rolleyes.gif
Not to get in between you two but I find this discussion particularly interesting. I happen to be a Panthers fan so I watched JBo for many years on a relatively poor Florida team. Is he a good player? Sure. Is he worth one of the higher defenseman contracts in the league? Absolutely not. Yes Whitney and JBo are the same type of player whether you like it or not. Both players are big bodies on the back end relied upon for the transition pass and QBing the powerplay. They're both expected to put up numbers. They're both top 3 Dmen. Is JBo a better version of Whitney? Sure. But is he a different type of player? Not really.

Whitney underperformed in Anaheim because of the system there more than anything else. Couple that with the fact that he's had to play behind the likes of Neidermeyer, Pronger, and Beauchemin and you realize he may not have had the chance to develop his game. All three players aforementioned are strong offensive players, and as such, Whitney's role was considerably restrained. He was asked to play a type of hockey he wasn't comfortable with.

Though I respect Flames fans, I really disagree with the way they've look down on the Oilers for the past 3 years. What more in that time frame have the Flames accomplished that we missed the playoffs? That's right, three straight early playoff exits. But don't fret Calgary, your fall is coming. Iginla and Kipper aren't young bucks anymore. The prospect pantry is getting dry. Perhaps we'll have a roommate in the basement before long.... 

 I dont look down on oiler fans or the organization. I have been s flames fan for as long as they have been here and vividly remember the early and mid 90s when we were the laughing stock of the west. Oiler4life made a ridiculous comment on JBO and I called him on it. The guy was the last cut for the olympic team for a reason. Not sure if he is worth 6.5 or 5.5 but he plays all the tough minutes fo us and has been very good thus far. Will whitney still be worth 4.1 if he struggles offensively for the oil next year? Its one thing to rack up 45-50 point seasons playing with Sid ,Malkin, and the rest of the high octane Pens. Quite another to do it with the 2010-2011 oiler team.  

With regards to the prospects observation, we have debated this to death over the last 2-3 years. 2 years ago the flames were supposed to be in the final stages of their "window" of success and the oiler young guns were supposedly on the cusp of tearing it up. The kid line the proceeded to tank and the flames traded for some of good young forwards (bourque,glenncross) and also saw others from within the organization up there play (Moss,Nystrom,Gio, Pardy).  Iginla is certainly getting older but at 32 he still has many good years left (looked pretty dam good at the olympics and lit it up for 3 last night). Kipper is playing some of the best hockey of his career and also has many years left. We have a strong top 4 dmen (gio,jbo,regher,white) in their prime and a slew of good forwards.  Flames have a few more years yet before they will be looking for a basement suite roommate

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Good luck keeping that top 4. Gio's going to command a hefty price next year, and White's an RFA. With a thin crop of forwards Sutter has little move to wriggle.

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Good luck keeping that top 4. Gio's going to command a hefty price next year, and White's an RFA. With a thin crop of forwards Sutter has little move to wriggle.

even if the flames keep all the contracts they are comiited to next year, they still have approx 6 million to sign white,nystorm, and a backup tender(I dont expect them to keep all those high price forwards). The following year ( gio is still under contract for 900k next year) when gios contract comes due, staois is off the list . If they want to keep that core of dmen, it wont be a problem money/cap wise

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This post is turning very interesting. Same guy defending the flames as in another post http://fans.oilers.nhl.com/topic/7636?page=2

People should revisit this post and you will get the feeling the flames can do no wrong. Kane & Toews have been a force for both the Hawks and their Olympic team. Moss and Dawes what have the done lately. When you compare Whitney’s numbers to JBow’s numbers it is not a good signing I agree with oiler4life. Same logic you used. Time to give it up .

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This post is turning very interesting. Same guy defending the flames as in another post http://fans.oilers.nhl.com/topic/7636?page=2

People should revisit this post and you will get the feeling the flames can do no wrong. Kane & Toews have been a force for both the Hawks and their Olympic team. Moss and Dawes what have the done lately. When you compare Whitney’s numbers to JBow’s numbers it is not a good signing I agree with oiler4life. Same logic you used. Time to give it up .

lol, imagine that, a flames fan defending the flames in a thread dedicated to the future of the flames. what are the odds

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Flames stay alive again. 3 for 3 since Staios came into the line-up, coincidence?

They'll be hard pressed to finish any higher than 7th though. Sutter's seat cools down a bit.

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Flames stay alive again. 3 for 3 since Staios came into the line-up, coincidence?

They'll be hard pressed to finish any higher than 7th though. Sutter's seat cools down a bit.

7th or 8th means they play the Sharks or Hawks.Not a good prospect either way but you never know? The Flames still have a glaring weakness that alot of teams have (especialy the Oilers) which is a lack of a true 1st line center which are harder to come by than virgins in a brothel. But they definetly have a better and more balanced offence than they had before the trades IMO.

  

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I still don't understand the Boyd trade. Just when I thought Sutter finally figured out that youth was the way to go, he deals Boyd and Johnson.

I doubt the Flames will win a playoff round, if they even make it. Sutter should be fired in the off-season, and if they don't fire him, wow... Giving him too many chances.

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I still don't understand the Boyd trade. Just when I thought Sutter finally figured out that youth was the way to go, he deals Boyd and Johnson.

I doubt the Flames will win a playoff round, if they even make it. Sutter should be fired in the off-season, and if they don't fire him, wow... Giving him too many chances.

How can you say Sutter didn't go after youth, he picked up Staois didn't he?wink.gif I just want to chime in with a thought about J-Bow. He surely isn't earning his contract so far. Frankly I think he is going to do better down the stretch. I think Sutter has been forced to give up his grinding crash and bash style of play and have a better balanced attack which will surely suit J-Bow style much better. I don't think Sutter knew what to do with a great skating D man. Sutter's idea of a D man was a knuckle dragging goon like Phaneuf running around trying to take peoples heads off.   Now he has someone that can actualy chew gum and skate at the same time. Which is a a huge adjustment for the Flames.

Wheres Jacky?unsure.gif

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I think J-Bo is a good player, but not deserving of that contract. I mean, look where he came from. The Southeast division, let alone the Eastern Conference, isn't exactly a tough spot. They don't play the rough style of the West, and most of the goalies, especially in that division, are average at best.

If he signed J-Bo for fewer years I could agree with it, but 6 years for a guy who hasn't even sniffed the playoffs, much less played in a pressure-packed city like Calgary, seems weird to me. Didn't Sutter learn anything from Olli? Most of the deals he made this year just seem like desperation deals, except for maybe the Toskala deal. That's the only deal that I think makes perfect sense. And even then if they don't re-sign him they're back to square one all over again. Dealing Phaneuf was a good idea but that's mainly because Sutter botched his contract too.

I know Flames fans are wired to believe in this guy, but I ask them, why? Aside from 2004, what has the guy delivered? Nothing except playoff disappointments similar to those of the early 90s. Yes making the playoffs every year is something to behold, but is that really enough? First round fodder the last four years, and Sutter manages to escape everytime by firing the coach. Can't do that this year.

I just don't really get his vision. Never mind that the Flames don't have that many decent prospects besides Backlund. Oh well, if he sticks around for another year, we can expect more of the same, if not worse from the Flames.

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[quote name='victoriaoilerfan wrote:


Keith_The_Great']I still don't understand the Boyd trade. Just when I thought Sutter finally figured out that youth was the way to go, he deals Boyd and Johnson.

I doubt the Flames will win a playoff round, if they even make it. Sutter should be fired in the off-season, and if they don't fire him, wow... Giving him too many chances.

How can you say Sutter didn't go after youth, he picked up Staois didn't he?wink.gif I just want to chime in with a thought about J-Bow. He surely isn't earning his contract so far. Frankly I think he is going to do better down the stretch. I think Sutter has been forced to give up his grinding crash and bash style of play and have a better balanced attack which will surely suit J-Bow style much better. I don't think Sutter knew what to do with a great skating D man. Sutter's idea of a D man was a knuckle dragging goon like Phaneuf running around trying to take peoples heads off.   Now he has someone that can actualy chew gum and skate at the same time. Which is a a huge adjustment for the Flames.

Wheres Jacky?unsure.giflol, Im still here Vic. I agree that JBO hasnt put up the offensive numbers we expected ( yet) but I still think he has been a fantastic addition to the team. Again, he may not be earning his 6.6 million offensively , but hes still doing all thats been asked from him in regards to icetime logged,shutting down the oppositions top line, etc. You may be right about how he has been utilized thus far.  He needs to take a few more chances. The big upside is that Gio has turned into an italian bobby freakin orr back there. Not only does he add a big offensive threat, hes extremely responsible defensively and is also one of our biggest hitters (hammered big bert a few times last night).

ps. you guys can kid all you want about Staios, but hes been really solid thus far. I expected the gritty shot blocking style he plays but am very surprised at how often and effectively he joins the rush. I also keep waiting for Kotalik to start taking nights off but the line of higgins,kotalik, and langkow has been good offensively and are extremely tough to play against ( again, expected kotalik to bring a high skill level but have been very surprised with his physical edge). I didnt get to low when the boys were struggling and realize they still have a long ways to go but they dominated a healthy red wing team last night and will be a handful if they keep playing the way they are.

pps. if we get in the post season the only team that scares me is the hawks.We just dont seeem to know how to beat those guys. We have defientely held our own against  the nucks and the sharks this season and can beat either team in a playoff series if we get hot

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9-1 and you "Held your own"? Yes you beat them once but the other game....

And I don't see the Flames getting higher than 7th, so you can forget about the Canucks. Never mind you can't beat the Avs....

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9-1 and you "Held your own"? Yes you beat them once but the other game....

And I don't see the Flames getting higher than 7th, so you can forget about the Canucks. Never mind you can't beat the Avs....

last time I checked it didnt matter how many you won by . We are 1-1 this season against them and had them by the short and curlies the last time we met them in the playoffs. The sharks are also a long time playoff team with little to show for it so they too have a monkey on their backs(including getting bouced by teh 8th place team last year). Would rather play the avs, kings, or yotes in the first round but dont fear the sharks.  The avs are not tearing it up so i still think 6th  is a realistic goal. That being said, IMO they need to win 9 of their last 16 to even get in (or get 18 of a possible 32 points) and that wont be easy to do. Gonna be exciting going down the stretch 

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Yeah, the Oilers lost to the Hawks last year 9-2 but they won a game so I guess they held their own.

As for the last time you met them, if by "had them by the short and curlies" you mean "Lost several opportunities to win the series" then I agree. The Ducks beat them last year because they know how to win, and still have several key players from the '07 Cup team. The Flames don't have that pedigree. They don't have a Perry or Getzlaf. While Iginla is still good, he's passing his prime and when he fails, so do the Flames.

I'd be interested to know what Sutter's making you drink, because you're still just a few losses away from being out of the playoffs. Good thing the other teams have temporarily stalled but I couldn't count on that staying the same way.

If I were a Flames fan I'd be downright mad the team is struggling just to get into the playoffs, and may not altogether. Not to mention they don't have any blue-chip prospects OR any 1st or 2nd round draft picks this year.

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Yeah, the Oilers lost to the Hawks last year 9-2 but they won a game so I guess they held their own.

As for the last time you met them, if by "had them by the short and curlies" you mean "Lost several opportunities to win the series" then I agree. The Ducks beat them last year because they know how to win, and still have several key players from the '07 Cup team. The Flames don't have that pedigree. They don't have a Perry or Getzlaf. While Iginla is still good, he's passing his prime and when he fails, so do the Flames.

I'd be interested to know what Sutter's making you drink, because you're still just a few losses away from being out of the playoffs. Good thing the other teams have temporarily stalled but I couldn't count on that staying the same way.

If I were a Flames fan I'd be downright mad the team is struggling just to get into the playoffs, and may not altogether. Not to mention they don't have any blue-chip prospects OR any 1st or 2nd round draft picks this year.

if you reread my previous post, i already conceded that I think we need to win 9 of the last 16 to make it and I dont think it will be easy. With regards to the loss against SJ 2 years, could wouldas dont mean much, but just to jog your memory , the flames were minutes away form a 3-1 series lead when cheechoo made a spin around seeing eye shot from teh corner along the goal line that tied game 4 ( you could give him a 100 pucks and he never makes that shot again.). Again, we still had our chances as it was a close hard fought 7 game series that could have gone either way .

With regards to Iggy, i expect he will be the player of the week and is absolutely on fire so if hes slowing down hes still pretty dam good. Yes, i didnt think we would be in this situation ( Im pretty sure the Pens didnt expect to finish 6th in the conference last year either) but we are still in the race. They have played solid hocky the last 3 games, have started to score in bunches and the new teammates seem to be gelling with the core. If the flames go on a run down teh stretch they will be a very dangerous team to meet in round one.

Finally, with rergards to the prospects and draft picks, I have heard the same thing the last 4 years from you guys. In that time, moss,nystrom,gio, and pardy have really stepped up, Baklund is on teh cusp of being a top 6 forward ( has really good numbers in the minors and is only sittting because we have so many veteran forwards in the stable). On top of that, we seem to have a knack for extracting good young players from other teams (glennx,bourque,JBO) so Im not too concerned. The oilers have been loaded with "top prospects" the last 4 years and have managed to get worse year after year so perhaps this whole prospect/draft pick is overated (unles you totally tank and get the number 1-3 picks). Again, have been hearing the "flames have no young talent" bs on this board for the last 4 years and we seem to be OK.   

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[quote name='Jacky7 wrote:


Darocka wrote:

Jacky7']Reading directly from you first post,your point was  that JBO is a terrible signing. Apparently it was easy to look good in florida and when thrust into the kitchen that is the NW division he is struggling(just assuming your point matched the actual wording of your post).JBOs offensive numbers arent as good as hoped but he play 25-28 minutes a game against the best the other team has to offer ( and is still plus 8).He will play all 82 games this year ( believe he is the current iron man in the league) and was the final cut on team canada. If he starts to put up a few more points Im very happy with his play this year.

 Again, the irony obviously flew way over your head as whitneys best years were with the most talented offensive team in the league (may 2nd behind the caps).Was easy to score 50 points in Pitt. and finish with a good plus/minus. How many points do you think he gets next year and what do you think his plus/minus looks like.  Is he going to earn his 4.1 next year when he is playing way more minutes than he is capable of on one of the worst teams (offensively and defensivley) in the entire league?  If it was hard for JBO to hide his apparent deficiencies (still not sure what they may be) in calgary, how well does whitney hide his downsides in edmonton?

ps. only on this board are whitney and JBO the same type of player
rolleyes.gif

Not to get in between you two but I find this discussion particularly interesting. I happen to be a Panthers fan so I watched JBo for many years on a relatively poor Florida team. Is he a good player? Sure. Is he worth one of the higher defenseman contracts in the league? Absolutely not. Yes Whitney and JBo are the same type of player whether you like it or not. Both players are big bodies on the back end relied upon for the transition pass and QBing the powerplay. They're both expected to put up numbers. They're both top 3 Dmen. Is JBo a better version of Whitney? Sure. But is he a different type of player? Not really.

Whitney underperformed in Anaheim because of the system there more than anything else. Couple that with the fact that he's had to play behind the likes of Neidermeyer, Pronger, and Beauchemin and you realize he may not have had the chance to develop his game. All three players aforementioned are strong offensive players, and as such, Whitney's role was considerably restrained. He was asked to play a type of hockey he wasn't comfortable with.

Though I respect Flames fans, I really disagree with the way they've look down on the Oilers for the past 3 years. What more in that time frame have the Flames accomplished that we missed the playoffs? That's right, three straight early playoff exits. But don't fret Calgary, your fall is coming. Iginla and Kipper aren't young bucks anymore. The prospect pantry is getting dry. Perhaps we'll have a roommate in the basement before long.... 

 I dont look down on oiler fans or the organization. I have been s flames fan for as long as they have been here and vividly remember the early and mid 90s when we were the laughing stock of the west. Oiler4life made a ridiculous comment on JBO and I called him on it. The guy was the last cut for the olympic team for a reason. Not sure if he is worth 6.5 or 5.5 but he plays all the tough minutes fo us and has been very good thus far. Will whitney still be worth 4.1 if he struggles offensively for the oil next year? Its one thing to rack up 45-50 point seasons playing with Sid ,Malkin, and the rest of the high octane Pens. Quite another to do it with the 2010-2011 oiler team.  

With regards to the prospects observation, we have debated this to death over the last 2-3 years. 2 years ago the flames were supposed to be in the final stages of their "window" of success and the oiler young guns were supposedly on the cusp of tearing it up. The kid line the proceeded to tank and the flames traded for some of good young forwards (bourque,glenncross) and also saw others from within the organization up there play (Moss,Nystrom,Gio, Pardy).  Iginla is certainly getting older but at 32 he still has many good years left (looked pretty dam good at the olympics and lit it up for 3 last night). Kipper is playing some of the best hockey of his career and also has many years left. We have a strong top 4 dmen (gio,jbo,regher,white) in their prime and a slew of good forwards.  Flames have a few more years yet before they will be looking for a basement suite roommate

  

I’m glad I waited a day to respond to all your lewd post on this website. Its O. K. To disagree with ones opinion but to call them out and then later agree, yah JBow is not covering his salary. Interesting change of heart. I took time to go over many of your previous post and realize you have a sociopathic personality behaviour disorder. You belittle people, lack respect for other people’s opinion, need to voice your opinion all the time and will need to have the last word in always. Sounds like a spoiled kid

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[quote name='Jacky7 wrote:


Keith_The_Great']Yeah, the Oilers lost to the Hawks last year 9-2 but they won a game so I guess they held their own.

As for the last time you met them, if by "had them by the short and curlies" you mean "Lost several opportunities to win the series" then I agree. The Ducks beat them last year because they know how to win, and still have several key players from the '07 Cup team. The Flames don't have that pedigree. They don't have a Perry or Getzlaf. While Iginla is still good, he's passing his prime and when he fails, so do the Flames.

I'd be interested to know what Sutter's making you drink, because you're still just a few losses away from being out of the playoffs. Good thing the other teams have temporarily stalled but I couldn't count on that staying the same way.

If I were a Flames fan I'd be downright mad the team is struggling just to get into the playoffs, and may not altogether. Not to mention they don't have any blue-chip prospects OR any 1st or 2nd round draft picks this year.

if you reread my previous post, i already conceded that I think we need to win 9 of the last 16 to make it and I dont think it will be easy. With regards to the loss against SJ 2 years, could wouldas dont mean much, but just to jog your memory , the flames were minutes away form a 3-1 series lead when cheechoo made a spin around seeing eye shot from teh corner along the goal line that tied game 4 ( you could give him a 100 pucks and he never makes that shot again.). Again, we still had our chances as it was a close hard fought 7 game series that could have gone either way .

With regards to Iggy, i expect he will be the player of the week and is absolutely on fire so if hes slowing down hes still pretty dam good. Yes, i didnt think we would be in this situation ( Im pretty sure the Pens didnt expect to finish 6th in the conference last year either) but we are still in the race. They have played solid hocky the last 3 games, have started to score in bunches and the new teammates seem to be gelling with the core. If the flames go on a run down teh stretch they will be a very dangerous team to meet in round one.

Finally, with rergards to the prospects and draft picks, I have heard the same thing the last 4 years from you guys. In that time, moss,nystrom,gio, and pardy have really stepped up, Baklund is on teh cusp of being a top 6 forward ( has really good numbers in the minors and is only sittting because we have so many veteran forwards in the stable). On top of that, we seem to have a knack for extracting good young players from other teams (glennx,bourque,JBO) so Im not too concerned. The oilers have been loaded with "top prospects" the last 4 years and have managed to get worse year after year so perhaps this whole prospect/draft pick is overated (unles you totally tank and get the number 1-3 picks). Again, have been hearing the "flames have no young talent" bs on this board for the last 4 years and we seem to be OK.   

That's because the core has overshadowed the lack of depth in the organization. I mean how many players in the Flames current lineup have they drafted? 3? Just squeaking into the playoffs can't possibly satisfy anyone. Didn't they also trade away Aulie? With the Kings, Coyotes, and Avs steadily improving, it's only a matter of time before the stagnant Flames miss the playoffs because they have no youth. Once Iginla and Kipper pass their prime (which is very soon), the Flames are in serious trouble.

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[quote name='Keith_The_Great wrote:


Jacky7 wrote:

Keith_The_Great']Yeah, the Oilers lost to the Hawks last year 9-2 but they won a game so I guess they held their own.

As for the last time you met them, if by "had them by the short and curlies" you mean "Lost several opportunities to win the series" then I agree. The Ducks beat them last year because they know how to win, and still have several key players from the '07 Cup team. The Flames don't have that pedigree. They don't have a Perry or Getzlaf. While Iginla is still good, he's passing his prime and when he fails, so do the Flames.

I'd be interested to know what Sutter's making you drink, because you're still just a few losses away from being out of the playoffs. Good thing the other teams have temporarily stalled but I couldn't count on that staying the same way.

If I were a Flames fan I'd be downright mad the team is struggling just to get into the playoffs, and may not altogether. Not to mention they don't have any blue-chip prospects OR any 1st or 2nd round draft picks this year.

if you reread my previous post, i already conceded that I think we need to win 9 of the last 16 to make it and I dont think it will be easy. With regards to the loss against SJ 2 years, could wouldas dont mean much, but just to jog your memory , the flames were minutes away form a 3-1 series lead when cheechoo made a spin around seeing eye shot from teh corner along the goal line that tied game 4 ( you could give him a 100 pucks and he never makes that shot again.). Again, we still had our chances as it was a close hard fought 7 game series that could have gone either way .

With regards to Iggy, i expect he will be the player of the week and is absolutely on fire so if hes slowing down hes still pretty dam good. Yes, i didnt think we would be in this situation ( Im pretty sure the Pens didnt expect to finish 6th in the conference last year either) but we are still in the race. They have played solid hocky the last 3 games, have started to score in bunches and the new teammates seem to be gelling with the core. If the flames go on a run down teh stretch they will be a very dangerous team to meet in round one.

Finally, with rergards to the prospects and draft picks, I have heard the same thing the last 4 years from you guys. In that time, moss,nystrom,gio, and pardy have really stepped up, Baklund is on teh cusp of being a top 6 forward ( has really good numbers in the minors and is only sittting because we have so many veteran forwards in the stable). On top of that, we seem to have a knack for extracting good young players from other teams (glennx,bourque,JBO) so Im not too concerned. The oilers have been loaded with "top prospects" the last 4 years and have managed to get worse year after year so perhaps this whole prospect/draft pick is overated (unles you totally tank and get the number 1-3 picks).
Again, have been hearing the "flames have no young talent" bs on this board for the last 4 years and we seem to be OK.
  

That's because the core has overshadowed the lack of depth in the organization. I mean how many players in the Flames current lineup have they drafted? 3? Just squeaking into the playoffs can't possibly satisfy anyone. Didn't they also trade away Aulie? With the Kings, Coyotes, and Avs steadily improving, it's only a matter of time before the stagnant Flames miss the playoffs because they have no youth. Once Iginla and Kipper pass their prime (which is very soon), the Flames are in serious trouble.

agree we dont have a ton of draft picks in the lineup but that is because we have been one of the most consistent teams in the NHL the last 8 yeras and never draft the top picks. Outside of players 1-5 the last few years, most teams first rounders are in the minors or are struggling at the nhl level. Im not convinced that drafts are bettter than astute trades (again, look at the "prospects" you have vs the trades we have made in recent years).You have to be really really bad for 2-3 years to draft top picks . Look at the hawks and the Pens. These 2 teams were sooooo bad they were able to draft top picks in consecutive years and have consequesntly built there team around these 2 guys (malkin/sid and kane/toews). Then on the other side of the coin is a team like SJ who built a superstar first line ( arguabley the best in the NHL) thru trades. Not convinced one style of team building  is  better than the other.  Whats better, a player darfted 15th overall this year or a trade like Stajan,White,Bourque,Langkow,Dawes, and on and on. i agree, that for you guys the draft is the way to go as you will likley draft fairly high next year as well. I agree that at some point Iginla and Kipper will retire. One of two things will happen. Our GM will take advantage of the salary dump when these 2 guys go and use it to acquire another teams superstar or they will do nothing and  flames will be brutal enough to get our eberle and hall .I dont see much point worrying about whats gonna happen in 5-6 years when iginla and kipper pack it in. 

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All I have to say is the Flames decline is coming sooner rather than later...

They have an aging Kipper, an aging Iginla, and an aging Regehr and too much money between their top 7 players (35 mil) with no prospects and no picks this year.

There are some tough times ahead for Flames fans.

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[quote name='Oilerforlife wrote:


Jacky7 wrote:

Darocka']Not to get in between you two but I find this discussion particularly interesting. I happen to be a Panthers fan so I watched JBo for many years on a relatively poor Florida team. Is he a good player? Sure. Is he worth one of the higher defenseman contracts in the league? Absolutely not. Yes Whitney and JBo are the same type of player whether you like it or not. Both players are big bodies on the back end relied upon for the transition pass and QBing the powerplay. They're both expected to put up numbers. They're both top 3 Dmen. Is JBo a better version of Whitney? Sure. But is he a different type of player? Not really.

Whitney underperformed in Anaheim because of the system there more than anything else. Couple that with the fact that he's had to play behind the likes of Neidermeyer, Pronger, and Beauchemin and you realize he may not have had the chance to develop his game. All three players aforementioned are strong offensive players, and as such, Whitney's role was considerably restrained. He was asked to play a type of hockey he wasn't comfortable with.

Though I respect Flames fans, I really disagree with the way they've look down on the Oilers for the past 3 years. What more in that time frame have the Flames accomplished that we missed the playoffs? That's right, three straight early playoff exits. But don't fret Calgary, your fall is coming. Iginla and Kipper aren't young bucks anymore. The prospect pantry is getting dry. Perhaps we'll have a roommate in the basement before long.... 

 I dont look down on oiler fans or the organization. I have been s flames fan for as long as they have been here and vividly remember the early and mid 90s when we were the laughing stock of the west. Oiler4life made a ridiculous comment on JBO and I called him on it. The guy was the last cut for the olympic team for a reason. Not sure if he is worth 6.5 or 5.5 but he plays all the tough minutes fo us and has been very good thus far. Will whitney still be worth 4.1 if he struggles offensively for the oil next year? Its one thing to rack up 45-50 point seasons playing with Sid ,Malkin, and the rest of the high octane Pens. Quite another to do it with the 2010-2011 oiler team.  

With regards to the prospects observation, we have debated this to death over the last 2-3 years. 2 years ago the flames were supposed to be in the final stages of their "window" of success and the oiler young guns were supposedly on the cusp of tearing it up. The kid line the proceeded to tank and the flames traded for some of good young forwards (bourque,glenncross) and also saw others from within the organization up there play (Moss,Nystrom,Gio, Pardy).  Iginla is certainly getting older but at 32 he still has many good years left (looked pretty dam good at the olympics and lit it up for 3 last night). Kipper is playing some of the best hockey of his career and also has many years left. We have a strong top 4 dmen (gio,jbo,regher,white) in their prime and a slew of good forwards.  Flames have a few more years yet before they will be looking for a basement suite roommate

  

I’m glad I waited a day to respond to all your lewd post on this website. Its O. K. To disagree with ones opinion but to call them out and then later agree, yah JBow is not covering his salary. Interesting change of heart. I took time to go over many of your previous post and realize you have a sociopathic personality behaviour disorder. You belittle people, lack respect for other people’s opinion, need to voice your opinion all the time and will need to have the last word in always. Sounds like a spoiled kid

   I said he isnt earning it as far as his offensive numbers go. I tried to point out the intangibles he brings. While my post/reply to you was  extremely sarcastic ,Im not  sure what part was "lewd". Appreciate the dime store analysis of my psyche and I am flattered you took the time to research my posting history . 

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Jacky , can you thank Sutter for giving us this Johnson kid in exchange for Staios?

   lol, Im glad he is playing well. He wasnt given a chance in chicago and I dont believe he would have seen much icetime here (even if we hadnt picked up staios). When he played I liked what I saw and believe he could develop into a good top 4 guy if given the icetime and chance to play.

Im fairly certain the flames will sign white and we will have regher,white,gio,jbo,sarrich and staios as the starting 6 next year(with pardy and kronwell as number 7 and 8). The following season both sarrich and staios are off the books. JBO,white, gio, and regher will all have plenty of years left so its just a matter of filling in the holes after that with the 6 million freed up .

ps. I have to say I have been really surprised with staios. Again last night he blocked his usual 50 shots but he continues to effectively jump into the offensive play.  Did not know he had that in his repetoire. I realize he likley isnt earning his salary(laugh.gif sorry couldnt resist)but hes been solid for us thus far and we are 4-0 with him in the lineup.Perhaps both teams will make out in the first ever "deal with the devil"smile.gif

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