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Future of the Flames

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Flames:

 

Gaudreau-Monahan-Frolik

Hudler-Bennet-Colborne

Bouma-Backland-Jones

Ferland-Stajan-Byron

EXTRA:

 

Giordano-Wideman

Brodie-Hamilton

Russell-Engelland

 

Hiller, Ramo

 

Oilers:

 

Hall-RNH-Eberle

Pouliot-McDavid-Yakupov

Korpikoski-Lander-Purcell

Hendricks-Letestu-Klinkhammer

EXTRA:

 

Sekera-Schultz

Klefbom-Fayne

Ference-Gryba

EXTRA:

 

Talbot, Scrivens

 

I still like our forwards more. Our defence is still one of the worst groups n the league, if we can saquire someone to push everyone down a notch on the right side it wouldn't be that bad. Goalies can go either way but with the defence in front of them it will Calgary's defence making the goalies looking better.

The top 6 on the Oilers as you've listed them are more talented but the bottom 6 of the Flames looks stronger.

Then, as you said, the Flames have the stronger D.

As to goalies the Edmonton pair has 188 NHL games (including playoffs) to their name. Chia needs to find a real starter.

 

1 of the new regime's bigger challenges will be to instill a work ethic that has been missing for much too long.

 

 

I don't know FF... it's easy for Oiler fans to say our top 6 are more talented, but realistically, I'd give the edge to Calgary.  McDavid has the edge on Bennett, but Hudler and Colborne have the edge on Pouliot and Yakupov.

Of course I"m talking about ACTUAL results, not "Potential".

Second line would be a close race, but overall results I'd bet Calgary would win that.

First line is Calgary easily.  Sure, Oilers have some serious talent with those three kids that have never done much except pad their own stats, but Calgary's top 3 are pretty good at padding their own stats, as well as carry a team into the Playoffs.

 

Calgary wins top line flat out no questions.  To the point I'd trade our trio for their trio straight across, if there was any way Trevling would do it.

 

 

I think Calgary's team is better from top to bottom, with ours, once again, a huge enigma.  We MIGHT be great, we MIGHT be bottom..  I think the best change for us, was the coach, so the true battle I'm interested in, won't be on the ice, but what those guys in suits standing on the benches will do.

That will determine how much further Edmonton will go, rather than the newest shiny kid on the block.

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For the 1st time in a long time both fan bases are liking where their teams are and whos representing the teams logo.the rivalry is officially back on.I like the fact that Alberta is going to be a way tougher place to get out of with any points.

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For the 1st time in a long time both fan bases are liking where their teams are and whos representing the teams logo.the rivalry is officially back on.I like the fact that Alberta is going to be a way tougher place to get out of with any points.

IMO the rivalry isn't officially back on until both teams can dance.  As it stands, we still have one team sitting in the corner watching

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For the 1st time in a long time both fan bases are liking where their teams are and whos representing the teams logo.the rivalry is officially back on.I like the fact that Alberta is going to be a way tougher place to get out of with any points.

IMO the rivalry isn't officially back on until both teams can dance.  As it stands, we still have one team sitting in the corner watching

 

I have been in "show me the money first" mode with the Oilers for 3 years now.

Alberta fans deserve a true rivalry, none of this media generated potential BS.

 

In drag racing you can have all the fancy horsepower you want until racetime. That is when that same power has to get to the pavement with traction and produce a series of wins to win the event.

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For the 1st time in a long time both fan bases are liking where their teams are and whos representing the teams logo.the rivalry is officially back on.I like the fact that Alberta is going to be a way tougher place to get out of with any points.

IMO the rivalry isn't officially back on until both teams can dance.  As it stands, we still have one team sitting in the corner watching

 

I have been in "show me the money first" mode with the Oilers for 3 years now.

Alberta fans deserve a true rivalry, none of this media generated potential BS.

 

In drag racing you can have all the fancy horsepower you want until racetime. That is when that same power has to get to the pavement with traction and produce a series of wins to win the event.

 

Yup, it's rubber to the road time.  But I finally like who we have driving the car {ChiaPete and Tod Mac} and that was the best change.

 

Flames will still be ahead this year, probably by a lot, but I finally feel like we might not explode at the starting line.

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Flames:

 

Gaudreau-Monahan-Frolik

Hudler-Bennet-Colborne

Bouma-Backland-Jones

Ferland-Stajan-Byron

EXTRA:

 

Giordano-Wideman

Brodie-Hamilton

Russell-Engelland

 

Hiller, Ramo

 

Oilers:

 

Hall-RNH-Eberle

Pouliot-McDavid-Yakupov

Korpikoski-Lander-Purcell

Hendricks-Letestu-Klinkhammer

EXTRA:

 

Sekera-Schultz

Klefbom-Fayne

Ference-Gryba

EXTRA:

 

Talbot, Scrivens

 

I still like our forwards more. Our defence is still one of the worst groups n the league, if we can saquire someone to push everyone down a notch on the right side it wouldn't be that bad. Goalies can go either way but with the defence in front of them it will Calgary's defence making the goalies looking better.

The top 6 on the Oilers as you've listed them are more talented but the bottom 6 of the Flames looks stronger.

Then, as you said, the Flames have the stronger D.

As to goalies the Edmonton pair has 188 NHL games (including playoffs) to their name. Chia needs to find a real starter.

 

1 of the new regime's bigger challenges will be to instill a work ethic that has been missing for much too long.

 

 I think comparing the Oilers forwards to the Flames forwards is almost apples to oranges.

 

 I think our top six have a huge better 'potential' of PPG with all these 1st overal picks. We have many skilled forwards that are more one trick ponies.

 

 If you look at the flames, I do not see the same top end firepower but they have a much stonger all round players who are way better suited at playing two way hockey in all three zones than we have. Really playoff style players from a great coach.

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I still don't see Bennett as a center. I know him being a winger in his short stay doesn't mean much, but everything about his game screams winger, just like how Huberdeau converted permanently. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

Monahan is a great center, but I don't think he'll be elite ever. On a better Oilers squad, RNH will look better than Monahan, and of course McDavid will be clearly much better even with a more optimistic view of Monahan.

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I still don't see Bennett as a center. I know him being a winger in his short stay doesn't mean much, but everything about his game screams winger, just like how Huberdeau converted permanently. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Monahan is a great center, but I don't think he'll be elite ever. On a better Oilers squad, RNH will look better than Monahan, and of course McDavid will be clearly much better even with a more optimistic view of Monahan.

Not sure Daffy, I think Monahan may be better then RNH.

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I still don't see Bennett as a center. I know him being a winger in his short stay doesn't mean much, but everything about his game screams winger, just like how Huberdeau converted permanently. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Monahan is a great center, but I don't think he'll be elite ever. On a better Oilers squad, RNH will look better than Monahan, and of course McDavid will be clearly much better even with a more optimistic view of Monahan.

 

I would like to agree but every time I underestimate the Flames I lose so I'm just gonna keep quiet... relatively :)

 

But, here's a fun thing. Every player always has that projected comparable if developed correctly. What if we looked at each team's players 25 and under if they developed into their projected potential.

 

Flames:

 

Gaudreau-Monahan-Colborne - Kane-Toews-?

Bouma-Bennet-Poirier - ?-Gilmour-Tanguay

Ferland-Jooris-Hathaway - Lucic-?-?

Wolf-Granlund-Smith - ?-?-?

 

Brodie-Hamilton - Suter-Redden

Wotherspoon-Morrison - ?-?

Kulak-Sieloff - ?-?

 

Ortio - Kiprusoff

Gilles - ?

 

Oilers:

 

Hall-RNH-Eberle - Messier-Datsyuk-?

Slepyshev-McDavid-Yakupov - ?-Crosby-Bure

Khaira-Draisaitl-Pitlick - ?-Thornton-?

Moroz-Lander-Pakarinen - Pouliot-Holmstrom-?

 

Nurse-Schultz - Chelios-Green

Klefbom-Reinhart - Seabrook-Coburn

Musil-Davidson - Vlassic-?

 

Brossoit - ?

Laurikainen - ?

 

I used the depth charts on the hockey news website. If anyone has suggestions for the question marks or better comparables than mine feel free to improve the projections.

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I still don't see Bennett as a center. I know him being a winger in his short stay doesn't mean much, but everything about his game screams winger, just like how Huberdeau converted permanently. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Monahan is a great center, but I don't think he'll be elite ever. On a better Oilers squad, RNH will look better than Monahan, and of course McDavid will be clearly much better even with a more optimistic view of Monahan.

Not sure Daffy, I think Monahan may be better then RNH.

 

 

No no. RNH still has much better underlying numbers.

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I still don't see Bennett as a center. I know him being a winger in his short stay doesn't mean much, but everything about his game screams winger, just like how Huberdeau converted permanently. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Monahan is a great center, but I don't think he'll be elite ever. On a better Oilers squad, RNH will look better than Monahan, and of course McDavid will be clearly much better even with a more optimistic view of Monahan.

Not sure Daffy, I think Monahan may be better then RNH.

No no. RNH still has much better underlying numbers.

But his ability to handle the big opposition isn't there. Plus Monahan is younger.

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I still don't see Bennett as a center. I know him being a winger in his short stay doesn't mean much, but everything about his game screams winger, just like how Huberdeau converted permanently. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Monahan is a great center, but I don't think he'll be elite ever. On a better Oilers squad, RNH will look better than Monahan, and of course McDavid will be clearly much better even with a more optimistic view of Monahan.

 

 

I respectfully disagree with you about Sam Bennett.

At the minimum, he will be a first or second line NHL Center within two years.

 

As well, I cannot envision the Flames ever trading Sean Monahan for Ryan Nugent Hopkins straight up.

Only two years into his NHL career, Sean is much closer to being a true Top Line Center than Ryan is after four years.

 

Conner McDavid is the real deal.

I believe that he will be a true Top Line NHL Center within two seasons.

Edited by 420since1974

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I still don't see Bennett as a center. I know him being a winger in his short stay doesn't mean much, but everything about his game screams winger, just like how Huberdeau converted permanently. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Monahan is a great center, but I don't think he'll be elite ever. On a better Oilers squad, RNH will look better than Monahan, and of course McDavid will be clearly much better even with a more optimistic view of Monahan.

Not sure Daffy, I think Monahan may be better then RNH.

No no. RNH still has much better underlying numbers.

But his ability to handle the big opposition isn't there. Plus Monahan is younger.

 

 

Disagree. RNH has been playing the toughest competition and has put up better possession numbers with a worse defensive group. If you're looking at his size you're being close minded IMO.

 

Datsyuk is smaller than RNH but he has no problem defending while centres like Thornton and Spezza are bigger but lacking. Shutting opponents down at centre is less about size and more about positioning and anticpation IMO.

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I respectfully disagree with you about Sam Bennett.

At the minimum, he will be a first or second line NHL Center within two years.

 

As well, I cannot ever envision the Flames trading Sean Monahan for RNH straight up.

Only two years into his NHL career, Sean is much closer to being a true Top Line Center than Hopkins is after four years.

 

 

- How would you define being a 1st or 2nd line centre? Minutes played, point production?

 

- Oilers wouldn't trade Nuge for Monahan straight up.

 

- Completely disagree. Tell me how Monahan is closer.

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For starters, how about physical size, points, +/-, total FOs, & FO %.

 

Need I go on?

 

Size - Doesn't mean much. There are big players that are terrible and small players who are MVP. If all else being equal then a team wants the bigger player. FYI, Monahan has one inch on RNH and RNH may weigh more.

 

Points - Nuge has a better PPG in his first two seasons than Monahan and a better PPG overall as well.

 

+/- - If you're using that stat as a determinate of overall play, you lack in hockey sense. Monahan was -212 in total shot attempts last season. Nuge was -6. That's a HUGE difference.

 

Total FO's? Seriously?

 

FO% - I'll give you this one. Monahan isn't good at faceoffs and Nuge is worse.

 

Yes, please continue to prove Monahan isn't as good as Nuge.

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I still don't see Bennett as a center. I know him being a winger in his short stay doesn't mean much, but everything about his game screams winger, just like how Huberdeau converted permanently. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Monahan is a great center, but I don't think he'll be elite ever. On a better Oilers squad, RNH will look better than Monahan, and of course McDavid will be clearly much better even with a more optimistic view of Monahan.

Not sure Daffy, I think Monahan may be better then RNH.

No no. RNH still has much better underlying numbers.
But his ability to handle the big opposition isn't there. Plus Monahan is younger.
I won't argue stats because I haven't looked at them. I base my opinions just from watching games. Now Last year I only saw Nuge live twice and like 50 times on TV, and I only saw Monahan live about 13 times. I don't watch the Flames on TV. He just looked more dominant and effective to me. I actually thought he carried Gaudreau, and that without Monahan Johnny hockey wouldn't be with his weight. I'll happily be wrong! Edited by Oilhockeyfan
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Nugent Hopkins played the most minutes of any forward in the NHL this year. He played in every situation and did well 5 on 5. He's on another level than Monohan at the moment. Monohans line was actually terrible 5 on 5. The flames found ways to win despite being outplayed which shows up in their ridiculous 3rd period comeback record.

Edited by MessierII

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Nugent Hopkins played the most minutes of any forward in the NHL this year. He played in every situation and did well 5 on 5. He's on another level than Monohan at the moment. Monohans line was actually terrible 5 on 5. The flames found ways to win despite being outplayed which shows up in their ridiculous 3rd period comeback record.

And with all that ice time, RNH elevated the Oilers to a hefty 61 points.  Time on Ice does not mean squat when the reason you are getting that time has nothing to do with performance, but rather lack of competition, and the "may as well get ready for next year" factor.

 

Monohan is a completely different player than RNH .. comparing the two is virtually impossible as their style of play is not even remotely alike.  Their effectiveness could be measured by team success, but not when the two teams are so vastly different in ability and level of play.

 

Calgary is sill ahead of us, and though a rookie McDavid elevates us by maybe 20 points this season, 97 points to 81 is still a huge gap.  It should be a 3 way race between McDavid, Eichel, and Bennett, right out of the hop though for the Calder … consistency and stamina over 82 games will ultimately elevate one of those players to the top.

 

I am so looking forward to McDavid's sophomore season …. that's when the BOA will be back on track.

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Nugent Hopkins played the most minutes of any forward in the NHL this year. He played in every situation and did well 5 on 5. He's on another level than Monohan at the moment. Monohans line was actually terrible 5 on 5. The flames found ways to win despite being outplayed which shows up in their ridiculous 3rd period comeback record.

And with all that ice time, RNH elevated the Oilers to a hefty 61 points. Time on Ice does not mean squat when the reason you are getting that time has nothing to do with performance, but rather lack of competition, and the "may as well get ready for next year" factor.

Monohan is a completely different player than RNH .. comparing the two is virtually impossible as their style of play is not even remotely alike. Their effectiveness could be measured by team success, but not when the two teams are so vastly different in ability and level of play.

Calgary is sill ahead of us, and though a rookie McDavid elevates us by maybe 20 points this season, 97 points to 81 is still a huge gap. It should be a 3 way race between McDavid, Eichel, and Bennett, right out of the hop though for the Calder … consistency and stamina over 82 games will ultimately elevate one of those players to the top.

I am so looking forward to McDavid's sophomore season …. that's when the BOA will be back on track.

I don't understand this fixation oiler fans have with blaming/crediting individual players for team performance. It's like saying Ekmund Larsson led the coyotes to a measly 56 points. Does that mean that Ekmund Larsson sucks and Gologoski is better because Dallas had 91 points? Ekmund-Larsson is still one of the best defencemen in the NHL as Nugent Hopkins was one of the better centers in the NHL this past year.

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Nugent Hopkins played the most minutes of any forward in the NHL this year. He played in every situation and did well 5 on 5. He's on another level than Monohan at the moment. Monohans line was actually terrible 5 on 5. The flames found ways to win despite being outplayed which shows up in their ridiculous 3rd period comeback record.

And with all that ice time, RNH elevated the Oilers to a hefty 61 points. Time on Ice does not mean squat when the reason you are getting that time has nothing to do with performance, but rather lack of competition, and the "may as well get ready for next year" factor.

Monohan is a completely different player than RNH .. comparing the two is virtually impossible as their style of play is not even remotely alike. Their effectiveness could be measured by team success, but not when the two teams are so vastly different in ability and level of play.

Calgary is sill ahead of us, and though a rookie McDavid elevates us by maybe 20 points this season, 97 points to 81 is still a huge gap. It should be a 3 way race between McDavid, Eichel, and Bennett, right out of the hop though for the Calder … consistency and stamina over 82 games will ultimately elevate one of those players to the top.

I am so looking forward to McDavid's sophomore season …. that's when the BOA will be back on track.

I don't understand this fixation oiler fans have with blaming/crediting individual players for team performance. It's like saying Ekmund Larsson led the coyotes to a measly 56 points. Does that mean that Ekmund Larsson sucks and Gologoski is better because Dallas had 91 points? Ekmund-Larsson is still one of the best defencemen in the NHL as Nugent Hopkins was one of the better centers in the NHL this past year.

 

I'm sorry.  You misread my post.  I don't blame RNH for the Oilers lack of success.  I thought I made it clear that I found the whole team's ability to be far lower than Calgary's, making it impossible to compare the two as their individual performance, and success is predicated upon team success.

 

RNH was great once Nelson took over.  Under Eakins, RNH was marginal at best.  That means RNH was amongst the leagues best centers for only half of last season, not the whole thing.  But Nelson wasn't the only factor influencing that, as once the mid point rolled around and the Oilers were in their familiar spot of DFL, many teams took the night off against the Oilers, especially in regards to physical play.  RNH was still very poor on the dot.  His line still played marginal hockey in their own end.  And he was mostly invisible in games with a clear and visible physical edge.

 

Sorry again.  I don't blame RNH for that … it WAS a team thing.

 

Statistically Monohan was better than RNH in absolutely every category this year including number of shifts per game (in spite of averaging a full minute less per game than RNH).  Meaning Monohan's shifts were far shorter than RNH … this is an indication of a player playing a team game, who is not trapped in his own zone interminably lengthening his shifts.  To argue that RNH was the better centre last year is purely an argument of preference, that can't be defended with statistics.

Edited by DeutchOil

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Flames:

 

Gaudreau-Monahan-Frolik

Hudler-Bennet-Colborne

Bouma-Backland-Jones

Ferland-Stajan-Byron

EXTRA:

 

Giordano-Wideman

Brodie-Hamilton

Russell-Engelland

 

Hiller, Ramo

 

Oilers:

 

Hall-RNH-Eberle

Pouliot-McDavid-Yakupov

Korpikoski-Lander-Purcell

Hendricks-Letestu-Klinkhammer

EXTRA:

 

Sekera-Schultz

Klefbom-Fayne

Ference-Gryba

EXTRA:

 

Talbot, Scrivens

 

I still like our forwards more. Our defence is still one of the worst groups n the league, if we can saquire someone to push everyone down a notch on the right side it wouldn't be that bad. Goalies can go either way but with the defence in front of them it will Calgary's defence making the goalies looking better.

The top 6 on the Oilers as you've listed them are more talented but the bottom 6 of the Flames looks stronger.

Then, as you said, the Flames have the stronger D.

As to goalies the Edmonton pair has 188 NHL games (including playoffs) to their name. Chia needs to find a real starter.

 

1 of the new regime's bigger challenges will be to instill a work ethic that has been missing for much too long.

 

 I think comparing the Oilers forwards to the Flames forwards is almost apples to oranges.

 

 I think our top six have a huge better 'potential' of PPG with all these 1st overal picks. We have many skilled forwards that are more one trick ponies.

 

 If you look at the flames, I do not see the same top end firepower but they have a much stonger all round players who are way better suited at playing two way hockey in all three zones than we have. Really playoff style players from a great coach.

 

I was saying that the Oilers top 6 as listed are more talented. The Flames went further due to a work ethic & playing better 2 way hockey. They also benefited from having a better blueline backing them up (D helps forwards while forwards return the favor).

That top 6 of the Oilers has lethal firepower & playing more of a team game can be taught. We already saw Hall & Eberle buy in following McLennan.

With exceptions like J Schultz (I had to throw that in to lighten the mood :lol:) defense can be taught. Stevie Y went from pure gunner to 1 of the best ever 2 way players. Joe Sakic is another.

 

It's going to take a little time for Chia & McLennan to undo what the OBC left them by changing the ethic & adding a strong bottom 6.

They've made a start on the D that hopefully buys time for Nurse not to be rushed into the lineup so he can become that stud I envisioned when he was drafted.

Goal still needs a proven starter. 1 of Talbot or Scrivens (yes, he could) might grow into that but starting the season with that pairing is too big a gamble @ such an important position. You can't have Grant Fuhr #s without a Gretzky & Co. outscoring everyone most games. This isn't the "run & gun" era so goalie is more important.

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I still don't see Bennett as a center. I know him being a winger in his short stay doesn't mean much, but everything about his game screams winger, just like how Huberdeau converted permanently. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Monahan is a great center, but I don't think he'll be elite ever. On a better Oilers squad, RNH will look better than Monahan, and of course McDavid will be clearly much better even with a more optimistic view of Monahan.

 

 

I respectfully disagree with you about Sam Bennett.

At the minimum, he will be a first or second line NHL Center within two years.

 

As well, I cannot envision the Flames ever trading Sean Monahan for Ryan Nugent Hopkins straight up.

Only two years into his NHL career, Sean is much closer to being a true Top Line Center than Ryan is after four years.

 

Conner McDavid is the real deal.

I believe that he will be a true Top Line NHL Center within two seasons.

 

 Agreed on Bennett. A slam dunk top two center for many years in this league. His overall play is just that good.

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I want to see more of Bennett. The NHL season is a marathon. I am not crowning Bennett yet, he certainly looked extremely good during the playoffs but how he weathers a full NHL season is another question. 

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I know a professional amateur scout for an Eastern team, who said Bennett was the best player in that draft class hands down.  He couldn't believe the Flames got him.

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I know a professional amateur scout for an Eastern team, who said Bennett was the best player in that draft class hands down.  He couldn't believe the Flames got him.

Bennett started the year that way but dropped a bit due to injury causing him to miss the Top Prospects game. A groin injury & that much laughed at failed pull up @ the prospects carnival dropped him further. Florida drafted the best D prospect available leaving the suspense for the 3 centers.

I really thought Buffalo would take Bennett if for nothing but name recognition since 1/2 their season tickets holders are from Ont. When they took Sam Reinhart it left the ball in McT's court.

Edmonton had been criticized for drafting smallish skilled forwards so McT went for size in an attempt to put that to rest.

So Calgary got very lucky due to a few gunshy teams.

 

In 4-5 years we'll know who made the right selection.

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I know a professional amateur scout for an Eastern team, who said Bennett was the best player in that draft class hands down.  He couldn't believe the Flames got him.

 

Maybe Bennet will turn out to be the best but if Oilers drafted him they would have been ripped apart by the media. Goes to show that when you're in a funk, no matter what you do it's wrong.

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Edmonton had been criticized for drafting smallish skilled forwards so McT went for size in an attempt to put that to rest.

They didn't do it "because of criticism" those guys never did anything because of peoples' opinions. They only cared about their own, and why wouldn't they? They're always right after all, it's reality that wouldn't conform. In fact I would suggest that if they were actually responding to criticism that they drafted too small, then it would have been more in character to have sought out the smallest snappiest winger in order to prove how right their strategy was.

They astonishingly made the decision based on an identified team need. It remains to be seen if they actually made the right decision at the right time.

Edited by UnrefinedCrude

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The Calgary Flames avoided 2 arbitration hearings by signing:

 

Lance Bouma to a 3 year contract at $2.2M/yr.

 

Josh Jooris to a 1 year contract at $975k/yr.

 

 

This leaves only 2 RFAs left for them to sign:

 

Michael Ferland & Paul Byron, who both will most likely sign for close to Jooris's numbers.

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